# National Maintenance Systems



## ColumbiaLand (Sep 1, 2008)

Has anyone here ever worked for National Maintenance Systems out of Rhode Island?. I was asked to bid some properties for next year. Looking for feedback on the company.


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## Rc2505 (Feb 5, 2007)

All nationals are the same. Slow pay, little pay, and all liability. Bid if you dare!!


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## Mick76 (Aug 2, 2009)

Collin,
I havn't heard of them but ask them for a copy of their contract for you to review before putting all that time and effort into a bid. If they're a legit company, with nothing to hide, they should be able to email the contract with no questions asked..... Thats what I do anyway... my time is way more important then figuring out bids with nationals only to find out you've won the bid, but cant agree on the contract language.....

Good Luck
Mike


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## JpLawn (Aug 5, 2007)

National maintenance systems is a joke. Do a search on them. There is a thread. I bid a few sites for them and they wanted them done for nothing. I bid a kohls for $40K and they came back with $17K as there figure. Everything I bid for them was double what they where willing to pay. I believe they where called "north east lot and pavement maintenance" or something like that. Beware of them.


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## fci (Sep 7, 2008)

I have never heard of them I would recommend having a lawyer read their contract, the $50-$100 you will pay can save you thousands. Do a Goggle search read them all some good some bad and one will bring you right back here.


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## PlatinumService (Jan 28, 2010)

fci;1243150 said:


> . Do a Goggle search.


i did one just for fun.. the first thing that comes up is a rip off report from a snow contractor saying they didnt pay :laughing:

and it wasnt off of this site


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## Rc2505 (Feb 5, 2007)

You gotta love rip of report. There are hours of reading on that site.


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## shoeman68 (Oct 18, 2007)

Anything with "National" in the wording is Kryptonite for companies in the industry trying to "make $$" Run, don't walk!!!


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## shillins24 (Aug 22, 2012)

Is anyone else working with these guys this year.? If so , are you getting paid.?


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## merrimacmill (Apr 18, 2007)

Yes National Maintenance Systems is 100% a joke. 

I have a large store next to one of their Kohls. Obviously I've been chasing it due to the fact that I could just take it right over with minimal expansion of equipment. But they had a budget of $15,000 for the site, and it is 5+ acres..

Now get this, after reading their contract there are two odd stipulations that blew me away. The first, and worst, is the payment breakdown. 1st is like 5% of contract value. 2nd is another 5% of contract value, 3rd is 15%, so on and so forth until you get to the end of the season (when you aren't spending money anymore) and they give you numbers like 30% and more for the last couple payments. These might not be exact numbers, but it was something entirely unsustainable like that... 

The second big issue was that the contract said "Minimum 3 yard loader must be dedicated to site, not to be used on any other sites during a snow event. etc etc.." And you have a budget of $15,000?? Well there is your entire loader rental right there.. 

Needless to say, the guy plowing it now has a Bobcat with a 68" bucket, and some truck from the late 70's with a fisher plow...


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## abbe (Sep 8, 2009)

merrimacmill;1596984 said:


> Yes National Maintenance Systems is 100% a joke.
> 
> I have a large store next to one of their Kohls. Obviously I've been chasing it due to the fact that I could just take it right over with minimal expansion of equipment. But they had a budget of $15,000 for the site, and it is 5+ acres..
> 
> ...


I have noticed that going on lately. Companies specify large equipment, then the figure they offer will not even cover a rental.

It's pretty disgusting.


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## dfd9 (Aug 18, 2010)

Y'all need to take Nancy Reagan's advice: Just say NO. 

I know, there's always the next plowjockey in line that is going to hit the big times by saying yes, but reputable companies need to just tell these folks to stick it.


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## gmcsierra1500 (Jan 23, 2006)

*Need some advice*

Hey guys I see this thread has been brought to the top lately and was wondering if anyone had more information on this company(I have been doing searchs on them) They contacted me today to take over a Kohls lot, its close to 4 acres and they are not specifying any certain sized loader on site. I have trucks and equipment sitting and my others are in the area. I have been very scared about working for nationals and have read there contract twice now, a few things I am not a big fan of in it and will review with my lawyer but would you guys consider finishing out a lot like this for the season? there offering 8k


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## shillins24 (Aug 22, 2012)

I'm sitting at 45 days without a payment, and I feel like I'm getting the run around a little bit. I'm going to give them a few more days before I decide to do something.. Btw contract states 30 day


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## merrimacmill (Apr 18, 2007)

gmcsierra1500;1599320 said:


> Hey guys I see this thread has been brought to the top lately and was wondering if anyone had more information on this company(I have been doing searchs on them) They contacted me today to take over a Kohls lot, its close to 4 acres and they are not specifying any certain sized loader on site. I have trucks and equipment sitting and my others are in the area. I have been very scared about working for nationals and have read there contract twice now, a few things I am not a big fan of in it and will review with my lawyer but would you guys consider finishing out a lot like this for the season? there offering 8k


If you get a handful storms for the remainder of this season, your already sunk at only $8K. Especially if you don't own (no payments) the equipment you plan on using for it..

Also something that is very common for these nationals is for the sales/account reps to say "oh hey, no problem. Just throw a skid steer down there and your all set! You can do it for $8,000!" That all sounds well and good when they are trying to get the lots for the lowest price possible, but when the ____ hits the fan, you will be sunk and called out on service failure. Good luck getting that $8,000 out of them after that. Its important to remember that more times than not, these peoples christmas bonuses COUNT on how cheap they can get the lots done.. This has been directly told to me by several reps from several national companies that we all know.


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## abbe (Sep 8, 2009)

8k? Wow. 



I would not even consider it.


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## plowking35 (Dec 21, 1999)

I was asked to bid 2 Stop and Shop gas stations.
After reading the contract language, they sent me in word, so I made my changes to it and submitted my bid. They thanked me and never got back to me.
email me at 
[email protected]
I will send the document to you. Fun reading


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## Maclawnco (Nov 21, 2002)

merrimacmill;1596984 said:


> Yes National Maintenance Systems is 100% a joke.
> 
> I have a large store next to one of their Kohls. Obviously I've been chasing it due to the fact that I could just take it right over with minimal expansion of equipment. But they had a budget of $15,000 for the site, and it is 5+ acres..
> 
> ...


I dont see the problem. Our target pays similarly odd but so what? It amounts to the same annual figure. Favorite month of that contact is may


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## merrimacmill (Apr 18, 2007)

Maclawnco;1601073 said:


> I dont see the problem. Our target pays similarly odd but so what? It amounts to the same annual figure. Favorite month of that contact is may


All my accounts are paid monthly, equally.

Just do out the cash flow projections during season if receiving 5%, 10%, etc. during the season. If you have the cash or credit line to float it, then it can work fine I suppose. But thats not my situation as everything is run off a cash basis for me.


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## jhenderson9196 (Nov 14, 2010)

Go ahead. Borrow to finance working cheap, then watch them go T U. Then you can go T U trying to pay the short term note.


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## Maclawnco (Nov 21, 2002)

jhenderson9196;1601104 said:


> Go ahead. Borrow to finance working cheap, then watch them go T U. Then you can go T U trying to pay the short term note.


Who said borrow?


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## dfd9 (Aug 18, 2010)

Maclawnco;1601073 said:


> I dont see the problem. Our target pays similarly odd but so what? It amounts to the same annual figure. Favorite month of that contact is may


Why does the insurance, phone, etc companies get to bill ahead but the DA lawnboys and plowjockeys have to wait a month--actually 45-60 days--to get paid for the work and materials they applied?

Just a basic principle of cash flow, and losing money because you are acting as a bank.


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## jhenderson9196 (Nov 14, 2010)

If you read all of the replies, you would know the post before mine stated "If you have the cash or Line Of Credit".


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## pats plowing (Nov 27, 2001)

One national company has all the Kohls sites in New England and its not the one being mentioned. Merrimac if you want the contact info let me know. We currently do 7 of them but our service area is already large enough.


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## Maclawnco (Nov 21, 2002)

dfd9;1601144 said:


> Why does the insurance, phone, etc companies get to bill ahead but the DA lawnboys and plowjockeys have to wait a month--actually 45-60 days--to get paid for the work and materials they applied?
> 
> Just a basic principle of cash flow, and losing money because you are acting as a bank.


Differernce between being a monopoly utility and comodity service provider. As a comodity provider, you have to be innovatibe to be successful. If that means I take a contract w odd cashflow terms, ill do it. That willingness to do something unique will set you ahead or hold you back. Your decision.


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## dfd9 (Aug 18, 2010)

Maclawnco;1602379 said:


> Differernce between being a monopoly utility and comodity service provider. As a comodity provider, you have to be innovatibe to be successful. If that means I take a contract w odd cashflow terms, ill do it. That willingness to do something unique will set you ahead or hold you back. Your decision.


Or, your decision to act like a professional business person by telling a customer that I am not a bank, but am providing a service that requires cash flow just as they do in order to survive and make a profit......

Not saying one isn't professional by acting as a bank. Just saying we should be as professional as possible. And not acting as a bank is one way.

The easy answer is, "Sir or madam, I would love to wait 60 days to get paid, but my employees won't wait 60 days for their checks." Neither will the utility companies that we both use, etc, etc, etc.


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## Maclawnco (Nov 21, 2002)

Difference of viewpoint. Agree to disagree. Got to change with the markets


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## jhenderson9196 (Nov 14, 2010)

One is only professional when acting as a bank when one earns interest on the operating Capitol provided as well as a fair fee for services rendered.


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## Maclawnco (Nov 21, 2002)

Whats more expensive: opprtunity cost of an unawarded contract or unearned interest income / interest on borrowed funds to win said contract?


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## jhenderson9196 (Nov 14, 2010)

If you don't consider the cost of loaning money to your customer interest free, you need to think again. If you need to give money away to get business, you need a new business plan.


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## Maclawnco (Nov 21, 2002)

Have a great life. You win


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## merrimacmill (Apr 18, 2007)

While I don't agree with the crazy payment set up of NMS of 5%, 5%, 10%, etc... We all know that in reality, we are all banks to a lot of these people. 

So far this month, I have received a grand total of $2,000. And for purposes of perspective, during Nemo, including shovelers, I had a total of about 40 people working (A LOT of shovelers). So I'm not a 1 truck wonder here or anything. 

I'm owed a completely insane amount of money, which is ALWAYS LATE. Both from local customers, national customers, and direct store to contractor national customers. I do expect things to start rolling in today or tomorrow, as anytime at or after the 20th people seem to get tired of my phone calls.

I chalk it up to the nature of the business most of the time...


Has anyone ever thought of what happens with the money from a payment to a national for say 2,000 stores at $10k each when they are 30+ days late? What if they are able to string us along for an extra 30 days, and keep 20 million in the bank for that duration of time. Is there money to be made that way? I always wonder... But am not enough of an expert with that stuff to start pointing fingers.


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## Maclawnco (Nov 21, 2002)

merrimacmill;1604021 said:


> While I don't agree with the crazy payment set up of NMS of 5%, 5%, 10%, etc... We all know that in reality, we are all banks to a lot of these people.
> 
> So far this month, I have received a grand total of $2,000. And for purposes of perspective, during Nemo, including shovelers, I had a total of about 40 people working (A LOT of shovelers). So I'm not a 1 truck wonder here or anything.
> 
> ...


Thank you Colin. Its just a fact of business. Its technically called float. And yes, interest income is probably a revenue stream for the nationals


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## 94gt331 (Oct 21, 2011)

Thanks to lawnsite and plowsite I've decided to never ever, ever take a national management job anywhere no matter how fancy and big I would look doing it. I stick for the lower paid jobs. I know at least i get paid for them.


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## SnowKing88 (Mar 11, 2014)

Shillins24, did you have any luck getting paid from National Maintenance Systems? I came across your posts(too late obviously) and I'm getting the same runaround. Pole smokers have a 30 page contract but when it comes time to pay, they throw you a few crumbs and make you starve. Please tell me that they will eventually cough up the dough. As of right now, I'm ready to lien the property I'm servicing for them. Thanks in advance for your reply.


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## mulcahy mowing (Jan 16, 2006)

plowking35;1601021 said:


> I was asked to bid 2 Stop and Shop gas stations.
> After reading the contract language, they sent me in word, so I made my changes to it and submitted my bid. They thanked me and never got back to me.
> email me at
> [email protected]
> I will send the document to you. Fun reading


Email sent...these guys are based out of an office two towns over from me and do some good lots near me...


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## JTVLandscaping (Jan 1, 2010)

I read all of this thinking it was still 2013. My concern with that odd payment schedule is they give you enough to keep coming back and then they tell you "there was a slip and fall so that's a service failure, so... sorry, we're not paying" just in time for those big payments. I might just be paranoid.


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## Chineau (Aug 24, 2010)

There is learning in this thread you could put in the Plow Boy's book of operation.


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## nepatsfan (Sep 16, 2004)

SnowKing88;1782666 said:


> Shillins24, did you have any luck getting paid from National Maintenance Systems? I came across your posts(too late obviously) and I'm getting the same runaround. Pole smokers have a 30 page contract but when it comes time to pay, they throw you a few crumbs and make you starve. Please tell me that they will eventually cough up the dough.* As of right now, I'm ready to lien the property I'm servicing for them.* Thanks in advance for your reply.


I guarantee that 30 page contract says you can't


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