# New guy looking for some advice.



## Ramitt (Mar 12, 2013)

Hey guys new here and not really new to the plow world. Never owned my own but have plowed a few times with my buddys and my uncles equipment. Anyway I have a 02 ram 2500 with a cummins. I've been looking to start plowing for the past couple years. Nothing major a few driveways. My uncle has a curtis plow of his old f250. Its just been all looked over and rebuilt last year(used it 2 times this year) new paint,lights/wiring,rebuilt the cylinders. He is trying to sell it since he got a new dodge. He said he would sell it to me for 1,100 I just need the frame mount for my truck. How are these plows? Not sure of the model of it but its a plow he used to plow buisness's and never had a problem with it. Anywhere I could find the bracket for my truck? Thanks for the help


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## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

Well first thing I would look into would be dealer support in your area. If there is no one near you then there is no point to get it IMO


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## Triton2286 (Dec 29, 2011)

Are you plowing commercially or just for family and friends? How big is the plow? Any idea on how old it is?

Just google for the frame mount and you'll find different websites that carry them.


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## Ramitt (Mar 12, 2013)

Mostly family and friends. Im thinking prob the most will be 10 driveways. We are looking at a few new houses and have a offer in on one. Its driveway is about 500-600 feet long. I think the plow is a 3000 series 8 foot plow.(4-6 years old) I know its not an light duty one since he plowed commercially with it. I was thinking maybe not even worry about spending the 700 for a new bracket and just weld up my own.


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## goel (Nov 23, 2010)

Find out about insurance. Might not be worth it for the little commercial work you are talking about. 

And anytime you plow for money, its considered commercial work.


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## Ramitt (Mar 12, 2013)

I dont see any point really. Just being family and like 3 friends. If I was plowing for people I didnt know then I would consider it. Growing up I plowed/snow blowed everybody out never had a problem.


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## RamesesSnow23 (Jan 4, 2004)

goel;1619731 said:


> Find out about insurance. Might not be worth it for the little commercial work you are talking about.
> 
> And anytime you plow for money, its considered commercial work.


I'm always amazed at the people who will find any reason to discourage someone from getting a plow/say its not worth it. If he wants it, he wants it. He plans on buying a house with a decent size driveway, that alone is worth it. Nothing wrong with picking up a few extra d-ways along the way.

You don't need insurance for a few driveways, especially if they are family/friends/acquaintances.

Just understand that you are taking a bit of a risk in that:
1) You will be paying out of pocket for any property damage you could cause if the owner wants to make a big deal out of it.
2) Your ins company may give you some grief about paying if you get in an accident with the plow on. You could always say its for personal use though and they cant prove otherwise. Worst case scenario you eat the cost of a new plow/truck mount.

I don't know what its like in your area but around here, people just want their driveways plowed and are not looking for your head if you do some minor property damage. Lawns they will usually let slide. The biggest problem I created in 8 years was knocking down a customers light post. We were able to work something out without involving insurance and it did not cost me a fortune. Thats how most of these things go. Commercial properties are a different game that you dont want to get into with out liability ins and a contract that is well written, preferably in consultation with a good attorney.

$1,100 does not sound bad for a used Curtis. In my opinion, there are better designed plows out there but they are reliable and fairly simple systems. The only thing that really sucks about them is the location of the plug down low riding in the snow. Tends to cause electrical issues. In a storm where it gets heavy use, its not uncommon for me to need to slather the thing with dielectric grease more than once. As for the truck mount, you can buy them over the phone direct from Curtis. Will prob run you another $400-$600 new in box. If you can find used or fab one up, more power to ya. Wiring harness should work but you may need headlight adapters for your vehicle.

Dealer support is nice but its not a deal breaker. You already say you can weld so I'm assuming basic troubleshooting/repairs dont bother you. Have some extra parts on hand (trip spring, solenoid, angle hoses, fluid, etc), stay on top of routine maintenance and you will be fine. Everything you need to know about a plow is online.


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## Ramitt (Mar 12, 2013)

Around here it doesnt matter if you are a contracted plow company or a neighbor. We all expect some gravel and missing grass in a few places. As far as insurance goes my pap ran an statefarm business for 40 years. He just recently retired so I know the employees pretty well. Im not worried about that as they treat me very well. Im more worried about backing into a tree or vehicle when plowing then I am about hitting something with the plow. Usually before winter ive learned to either walk the property or have the owner put stakes around stuff you cant see. Im not scared of getting a plow that needs work either. That is pretty much a cake walk but I would prefer to have something I can just store it and get it out when I need it.

Thanks for the replys and thank you CJA for the info on the curtis plow. Its not a done deal yet since winter is pretty much over im not in to big of a hurry to get a plow.


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## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

Deside what you want to plow and set up to do that most efficiently that way you maximize your profit.

Pickups for driveways is not the best solution. 

I started with residential drives and a pickup, (thats what everyone said I needed) thought I was doing great, so good that I needed a backup in case my 16 year old truck crapped out. I got a jeep wrangler as a backup. I used it once and cut my plowing time in have by using the jeep. The next year I sold the truck. 

Now I would not use my Jeep to plow wally world, I could but not the best use of the Jeep. I dont know why people insist on plowing wally world and drive ways with the same equipment. would you mow a soccer field with the same equipment that mow a 1/4 acre lot? yet many plow wally word and a 20Ft drive with the same 
equipment, Why?

PS my F150 with plow was 23 feet long

Plowing since 1986. 8 years ago I could plow 75 drives a storm, with a waiting list for people to join my customer base. Im too old to do that now, but there is know way I could have done that with a truck (I tried and got a Jeep). you want to plow wally wold get a pickup.


I make more /hour than any PU ever dreamed of. 

My 2 cents


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## Ramitt (Mar 12, 2013)

I do realize that but its either use my 2500 which is my very reliable dd or my restored 78 cj5. Which granted my dad used to plow with his 76 and he loved it but plowing with a restored jeep isnt practical in my book. I know that I could get a beater jeep and use it but then you loose the reliability and plus adding insurance,inspection,registration just to have a better plow vehicle. Plus to me I dont know of a better vehicle to plow with than my truck that gets 18mpg. I know the plow will cut that down some but wont be that much.


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## Sawboy (Dec 18, 2005)

cja1987;1620292 said:


> You don't need insurance for a few driveways, especially if they are family/friends/acquaintances.


Yeah.....until someone comes over to that house slips and falls and sues you for every penny they can. Sorry. If your plow is touching property that isn't yours, you should have insurance.


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## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

I just told you of a better plow vehicle for driveways, fine your doing this for beer $ and not as a business.


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## Antlerart06 (Feb 28, 2011)

I don't know about your truck Insurance But mine wont cover it once the plow is on If I get in a fender bender My contactor Insurance covers the truck when the plow is on When plow is off the Truck insurance will cover it
Something look in to


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## Ramitt (Mar 12, 2013)

Getting insurance to help a few friends would put me in the hole each year. There for I would either have to get more accounts(work time wouldnt allow it) just to break even on my insurance. Should I sue mc donalds for making me fat? After all it is their food. Ill look into that antlerart06 Thanks!


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## Sawboy (Dec 18, 2005)

Sarcasm ain't needed brother. All I'm telling you is that if someone slips on property that you plowed, YOU ARE LIABLE. Don't want insurance, don't get it. You came on asking for help as a new guy. I am giving you real world experience as a person who was sued for "improper snow plowing". Don't want advice ya don't like. Don't ask for it.


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## Ramitt (Mar 12, 2013)

I get that and I thank you but what I dont see the point of it is or if it would pay off. ok say the young neighborhood boy that is just trying to make some money during a snow storm. Are you telling me he should have insurance also? To me you are stepping on my property without my permission so if you fall you are liable. Thats how we live around here and if you fall its your stupid fault. Now if we were talking about a public walk way or lot then I would totally agree with you 110%. Maybe if I was in the city I would worry about people suing me but here in the county we dont worry about it.


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## THEGOLDPRO (Jun 18, 2006)

First word of advice i can give you is never listen to Grandview

Second is, the Curtis is a great plow, i had one for 8 years without a single problem and plowed commercially with it all 8 years.

The only reason i got rid of it was i sold the truck that had the mounts and wiring for it, And didn't feel like taking the time to strip the mounts and wiring.


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## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

Ramitt;1620542 said:


> I get that and I thank you but what I dont see the point of it is or if it would pay off. ok say the young neighborhood boy that is just trying to make some money during a snow storm. Are you telling me he should have insurance also? To me you are stepping on my property without my permission so if you fall you are liable. Thats how we live around here and if you fall its your stupid fault. Now if we were talking about a public walk way or lot then I would totally agree with you 110%. Maybe if I was in the city I would worry about people suing me but here in the county we dont worry about it.


why do you assume its without permission? how about a friend that goes over, mailman,UPS driver. plumber to fix a leek they have.

Granted if your plowing ONLY resis the rate of suing is much less (knock on wood, in 28 years not one suet).


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## Ramitt (Mar 12, 2013)

I actually work for ups and dog bites are pretty much the only thing the home owner is liable for. Plus I think its totally different when you are plowing out a friend vs having a contract. Now if I had a contract stating that I would plow/salt the driveway and maintain sidewalks then ok if someone slips and falls its my fault. You guys have to remember that im just purely helping a friend out by making a few passes to clear the bulk of the snow and thats it. No sidewalk maintenance. Mostly this plow is meant for my driveway and my grandparents. I have a day job so Im not using it to make a living.

Anyway back on topic. As far as V blade vs straight blade. Is it worth spending the extra money on a V blade if your not doing commercial work. Any cons to using them?


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

Ramitt;1620702 said:


> Plus I think its totally different when you are plowing out a friend vs having a contract.
> 
> Sorry Charlie, while you may get a judge to say you're not liable, you can get sued as easy plowing for free as for pay. Legal fees are the same thing to get released from the suit regardless of if you got paid, had a contract, didn't have a contract, etc. Fair? No but that's how our legal system works. It's quite possible your personal liability insurance will cover it but no guaranty.
> 
> Anyway back on topic. As far as V blade vs straight blade. Is it worth spending the extra money on a V blade if your not doing commercial work. Any cons to using them?


No cons but you surely don't need one for the scope of work you're doing


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## theplowmeister (Nov 14, 2006)

basher;1620776 said:


> No cons but you surely don't need one for the scope of work you're doing


Agree.


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## Ramitt (Mar 12, 2013)

Well my neighbor said his one buddy has a garage and there is an older ford there and it has a v blade on it. I guess the guy that owns it went to jail or something and its been sitting there for awhile with an unpaid bill on it. I figured if I could get the blade for cheap then why not.


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

If you can buy the whole rig cheap it could be a deal. However; an old vee blade going on a new truck could be no bargain


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## Ramitt (Mar 12, 2013)

He said he would check with his buddy and figure out what he was doing with the truck. I know I really dont need one(not at their price) but I do like them. I plowed a few times with an 08 chevy 2500 with a new western mvp V blade. It was a nice plow.


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## Sawboy (Dec 18, 2005)

Here ya go. Helping out a buddy!

http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=146283


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## RamesesSnow23 (Jan 4, 2004)

Sawboy;1620530 said:


> Sarcasm ain't needed brother. All I'm telling you is that if someone slips on property that you plowed, YOU ARE LIABLE. Don't want insurance, don't get it. You came on asking for help as a new guy. I am giving you real world experience as a person who was sued for "improper snow plowing". Don't want advice ya don't like. Don't ask for it.


If you are just an "average Joe" doing some driveways for extra $$$, you need a better attorney if you lost that one.

Its impractical/unreasonable to remove every potential winter hazard from the typical homeowners driveway. You don't have a contract for continuous maintenance to provide for the safety of the public like you would for a large commercial property, etc. The plow job could have been entirely proper and then some snow melts out of a bank and re freezes, you are not "contracted" ie expected to take care of that so how the hell can it be your fault? Thats what homeowners ins is for.

My route comes from friends and friends of friends, etc, etc. I've got a simple hold harmless agreement drawn up by an attorney and thats it. I stand by my comments above. Not everyone who wants to plow his own drive and a few others needs to incorporate, register commercial and get 5 million in liability ins. The suggestions for such are over the top in many cases.


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## Sawboy (Dec 18, 2005)

LOL. Keep thinking that ya can't get sued. Did ya see where the panhandler was granted the right to sue the government because he was asked to leave a public building while panhandling? Violates his 1st amendment rights. Private business can remove him, government cannot. 

That lawsuit was deemed legal by a sitting judge.

Go ahead and plow without insurance. Get sued and even if you don't "lose".....you're gonna pay something.


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

We were sued by an insurance company in a supplication suit .The customer bought the vehicle from a dealership that subcontracts us to do tow system installations so they assumed we had worked on the vehicle. Was easy to get released from that one, no one (car owner, dealership or our records) had any invoicing to prove we had done any work on the vehicle. The plaintiff tried using arbitration as discovery, Backfired as the arbitrator was not happy with the plaintiff and their lack of evidence and misuse of the system. However I still had to pay a clerk to look for any possible paperwork in that time period, the insurance company paid a lawyer to prepare for arbitration, I had to go to arbitration, etc.

Anybody can sue anybody they want for whatever they claim. It is than the defendants problem to disprove the plaintiffs claims. The only way to get the money you spend defending yourself is....sue.

Of course you can defend yourself but remember the old proverb "He who is his own lawyer has a fool for a client."


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## tjctransport (Nov 22, 2008)

the best advice i can give you is plan on loosing money. 
after plow cost, truck cost, fuel cost, insurance cost, maintenance cost, if you break even you are ahead of the game.


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## Ramitt (Mar 12, 2013)

I realize that im not going to make money simply helping a few friends and family members out. Usually they return the favor when I need help weather its putting up drywall,cutting down a few trees,building an addition. To me im saving money in the long run. I talked to a lawyer and he put it simply as "if someone is looking to sue they will find a way to make it happen weather its your fault or not"


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## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

Ramitt;1628354 said:


> I talked to a lawyer and he put it simply as "if someone is looking to sue they will find a way to make it happen weather its your fault or not"


absolutely true, why good paperwork is key to protecting yourself, and remember insurance companies not only pay awarded damages they also pay for your lawyers to avoid paying those damages in the first place.


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