# Professional advice in the Personal Forum



## Crumm (Nov 5, 2003)

Just my $.02 but it seems that every time someone asks about a plow for there driveway the "professionals" try to advise them to buy a $3000+ plow setup. They then proceed to bash the snowbear and anything else that they think might not withstand there commercial abuse as a "professional". The next step they seem to take is to go to the regular discussion forum and gripe about low ballers. I wonder where a low baller comes from. You think a homeowner that just bought a $3500 plow for his 300ft driveway might decide to plow the local mini mart for beer money. I think so since he just spent his last dollar on a plow that is ten times more plow than he needed.

This is just my opinion but I do not feel that a homeowner needs to spend a small fortune to plow a driveway that could be shoveled in 20 minutes. Nor does a homeowner need to trade in his family SUV for a one ton super-duty so he can plow out his parking spot. Lets try to keep the personal use forum on track as Personal Use rather than trying to create another thousand low ballers.


----------



## Bolts Indus. (Dec 22, 2003)

Way to go. Right on the money.


----------



## Mick (May 19, 2001)

I agree 100%. That's why I always say "if you don't intend to do more than your own driveway". The Personal Snowplow is just that and it would be the same as advising me to buy $7,000 ZTR to mow my lawn.


----------



## RamesesSnow23 (Jan 4, 2004)

Partly true.
Often times people post in the personal use forum stating that they want to get a "real", good plow set-up for their suv/light truck. Thats when i give advice on a "real" plow set up.

As far as the snowbear stuff goes, i don't know why people debate it so much. You want to plow your drive, its great, much better then shoveling and it appears to do the job well. I just read through that whole thread that Toyabie posted in and i sided with toyabie. People think because they went out and spent $3,500+ on a plow that everything else is sub par. Not always true. Its the 3/4 and 1 ton vs. 1/2 ton debate on a smaller scale. All will work, all have a purpose. I tend to advise against the snowsports not because they completely suck, but because you spend good money on them and they are not power up/down, and tend, in my experience, to ride right over the snow.


----------



## bolensdriver (Oct 12, 2004)

I agree on the Snow Sport. I don't know why they are so expensive.  Guess it's cause some suburban people think it's worth it. You know, the professional office worker who can't tell a Ford from a Chevy. If they had a lift on those Snow Sport's, then it'd be better, but you have to get out to lift the plow, and that's sad.

SnowBear is a nice plow (trust me!), I have witnessed a guy with one, on a Jeep Cherokee (older model) and he plows driveways and small lots with it.

Sincerely,
Jake


----------



## Personal Plow (Nov 1, 2003)

Maybe some of the so called professionals are inadequate as men without that big plow to push the little home owner around with  

PP


----------



## cet (Oct 2, 2004)

PP
That was uncalled for. We had a good post with honest thoughts and opinions.


----------



## jasf (Nov 7, 2004)

Great post Crumm. I am a "personal "plower.I appreciate all the advice from the pros. I started with a shovel moved on to a blower & now a blade on my GT.I have no time to make money at this.I just want to stay warm doing the 3 drives I have to do. I agree that some of the lowballing is created right here.I get offered 10 or 15 bucks to do a driveway just trailering my tractor around.( I don't do them!)Hopefully I wont be trailering the GT much longer. With the advice from this forum I will be getting a Homesteader or Blizzard 720 soon.


----------



## Personal Plow (Nov 1, 2003)

cet said:


> PP
> We had a good post with honest thoughts and opinions.


Same here  I find it funny that a SO CALLED PROFESSIONAL will jump on a little home owner for getting something that works great for them.

Being retired should i polk at them for only haveing one or two plows when i had alot more of them plowing at once?? i dont thin k that would be fair.

If you feel the need to put ones equipment down, dont pick on that little home owner plow, PICK ON ME  I know what its like to command many trucks with REAL FISHER PLOWS and Guess what SANDERS TOO!!!!!!!!!

I resisted last year to help Chuck out. I can see it has been a Mistake. Its taken me a year to check it out again and its still the same :crying:

PP


----------



## The Boss (Oct 22, 2003)

Cet is right. This was a very good thread until you had to stick your nose where it didn't belong. I don't see anyone putting down personal use plowing in this thread, do you?


----------



## johntwist (Feb 10, 2004)

Personal Plow said:


> I resisted last year to help Chuck out. I can see it has been a Mistake. Its taken me a year to check it out again and its still the same PP


You don't get it do you??? This thread was a nice little discussion, started by a man who was actually supporting your position. Nobody was attacking anyone, and there was no need for what you said. I hope you don't mind but if you take another year (or hopefully more) to come back again, I doubt you'll be missed. There's been alot of people popping up lately with nothing positive at all to say and I don't think that's what this site is about at all.


----------



## The Boss (Oct 22, 2003)

I don't understand that either. Here is Crumm suggesting a thread to help guys like you and you're criticizing it.


----------



## RamesesSnow23 (Jan 4, 2004)

Personal Plow said:


> I resisted last year to help Chuck out. I can see it has been a Mistake. Its taken me a year to check it out again and its still the same :crying:
> PP


Would You Like To Explain Whats So Bad About This Site?

That thread with toyabie started a while ago and was brought back to the top for no reason. It does not represent the views of anyone here now. We have all said that snowbears have their use.


----------



## crashz (Jan 12, 2004)

There has been a lot of negativity lately. Has other people noticed it too? Maybe everyone is a little on edge becasue its the begining of the season.


----------



## bolensdriver (Oct 12, 2004)

I haven't noticed it. I'm used to *Queen* forums. If you want negativity, join a *Queen* forum.  There are arguments 24/7 on those boards, and a lot less members, and not even as active. I'm happy to be here, as it's a lot nicer than most *Queen* forums.


----------



## RamesesSnow23 (Jan 4, 2004)

bolensdriver said:


> I haven't noticed it. I'm used to *Queen* forums. If you want negativity, join a *Queen* forum.  There are arguments 24/7 on those boards, and a lot less members, and not even as active. I'm happy to be here, as it's a lot nicer than most *Queen* forums.


What other bands do you like besides queen? Just wondering


----------



## bolensdriver (Oct 12, 2004)

cja1987 said:


> What other bands do you like besides queen? Just wondering


Many. Aerosmith, Guns N Roses, Placebo, Twisted Sister, Cutting Crew, Scorpions, etc.

Anything rock really.


----------



## 84deisel (Dec 2, 2003)

I'm confused. people come to this site for advice and answers yet when a pro comes up to the plate to give some good advice , why does somebody always have to try to bash instead of accepting and increasing their knowledge.


----------



## Dwan (Mar 24, 2004)

My 2 cents worth

The first 4 replys were about this thread. 
The next 13 posts were just *****ing about someone else.
It seems that every thread on this site end up like this. Think about it, about 25% of the information on this site is useable the rest is bull $hitt. Just like my post.
I love you all keep up the good work.


----------



## Snow-Xpress (Nov 23, 2004)

@ Dwan: I have been around forums for a couple of years now and it is all the same everywhere. I agree with you tho; 25% is usefull and the rest is bs. In some forums I used to 'hang out' there was a special section called "BS"...... 

Keep it real, express your opinion but do not feel attacked if somebody else doesn't like your opinion that is just life. Maybe your vision is not the only one? 

"hhmm is that air you are breathing now?"

Any way that was just my 2 cents............

Luv Ya!

Snow-Xpress


----------



## wfd44 (Jan 31, 2004)

I will start by saying I agree with Crumm's original post (to a point). There is way too much bashing of other products that most of us with "real plows" have never and probably will never use. 

However there are many here who post questions on what plow to use for their "personal plowing" that includes 10 driveways, private roads and a parking lot for their business. To me this is "commercial plowing" level of use whether it is paid or not. Depending on where they live and how much snow they get this may be too much for a snow bear but just right for a Homesteader or Blizzard LT.


----------



## Crumm (Nov 5, 2003)

wfd44 said:


> there are many here who post questions on what plow to use for their "personal plowing" that includes 10 driveways, private roads and a parking lot for their business.


That is commercial to me too. I would not recommend a "personal" type plow for that kind of use. My original post in this thread was aimed at the threads where the single driveway homeowner was being told what a hunk if junk anything that costs less than $3000 is. I would say that anything more than a couple of driveways less than 1000' each would be classified as more than "personal use".

wfd44, Thanks for getting this thread back on topic. It was about to turn into another bash session which is just what I was trying to get away from. I was just trying to explain that we should give the single driveway homeowner a break rather than a lecture on what a piece of crap his SUV and personal use plow is.


----------



## wfd44 (Jan 31, 2004)

Totally agreed. And that is why I have what I have. I basically do 3 driveways (mine, parents, and in-laws) and am trying to pick up some sub work. Also not having a new $30,000 truck made it easier to afford a good used real plow. When I had my new S-10 (with payment book) I couldn;t afford to hang a Homesteader on it.


----------



## Vinny B (Nov 13, 2004)

*personal plows*

I'm new here, and have learned a lot on this very informative site... :waving: I bought my 1st truck chev 04 2500HD and put a fisher mm2 on it...not for the business of snow plowing..just to plow my office and my home...I'm enjoying the ride and have already had snow to practice on and found that you seasoned snow plowers have a lot of talent. ie..its not easy..negative or positive coments are fine as long as this site remains informative..thank you! purplebou


----------



## Duplantisjj (Sep 28, 2004)

I learned a lot from this Forum....I was considering a Suburanite or Homesteader for my parking lot....about a half acre lot. And after reading hours of posts I starting learning that I most lilkely wouldn't have enough plow for my purposes,,,or it wouldn't last too long under "commercial like" conditions. I am very satisfied with my decision and felt more educated about it before I bit the bullet and bought my Boss 7'6". I'm quite a happy camper now, I am pretty sure the homeowner plow would not have been heavy duty enough for my application. :waving:


----------



## Crumm (Nov 5, 2003)

I would not call your restaurant parking lot "personal use" so you made the right decision. I think we might be down there in your neck of the woods some time around Christmas. We might just drive by your restaurant or stop in for a bite to eat so you better have that lot all cleaned up for inspection  . I forgot the name of it already though. What was the name and address?


----------



## doug96 (Mar 2, 2005)

*this is educational to*

newbe rookie new guy novice needs help

its always the same questions when someone knows nothing about plowing,
me for example 
come here to get awnsers what rig is the best what do i want to avoid or stay away from (pontiac 6000 rig) :rolleyes lol

whats the best or worst and we all have the same dream,

with one massive dumping you can plow friends, family ,neighbors, cute girls 
seniors then you turn it into a thriving fortune 500 snow management giant payup and our system doesent always lend its self to doing things "right" 
like $800 for 3 months ins. and the DBA bonding getting started is tough

so we start off private plowers our own driveway is never enough

we love it so much plow plow plow plow em all cant sleep must plow 

then money quickly becomes a priority get another truck get legal and get to it

and we still love it now were a professional up and comming still need advice 
which ice melter
billing
lawsuits
products we all want the pros advice and the truth ends up hurting and costing


----------



## wagonman76 (Jan 31, 2005)

Its the same thing on most message boards, and in most of daily life. Most people are respectful of others who are on different levels of things. But there are always some who will shun anyone who is not on their level of something. There are bullies in every bunch. And one mans trash is another mans treasure. But the main thing is to use what works for you and for what you are doing.

It is a given that equipment designed for personal use will generally not hold up to commercial use. Its also a given that equipment designed for commercial use is generally overkill for personal use. You can recommend a more heavily designed piece of equipment to someone in case they want to move up. But not everybody wants to make a business out of their equipment.

I used to visit an RV forum a lot. Whenever someone posted about towing something with a 1/2 ton truck, even while staying within the limits of the truck, there were people who would bash them every time because they felt the rig was inferior to their 3/4 ton truck towing a large 5th wheel, even though many of them had overweight rigs.

Like me, I have absolutely no desire to plow for business. I am already busy enough as it is with a full time engineering job and raising a little girl on my own half the time. Spending 2 hours every night shoveling out the 200 ft driveway was taking up what was left of my time and energy, and if it snowed through the night Id have to say so much for the propane truck getting in, this happened 4 times and I had no heat for a week. Paying someone to plow, to me, is like renting or leasing, youll only pay forever and never have anything of your own, and besides if they run into something its my loss. I designed my little plow based on my requirements, and to save time. I was not going to buy a truck and a plow just for my own driveway and the occasional friends or relatives familiar driveway. It had to fit the car, both for load and size, and had to be a V. It had to power up and down. It had to be able to stay on and be secure for road transport. It had to be cost efficient and easy to build. I could have bought a Solotec, but doesnt it kinda defeat the purpose if you have to dig your way to it, dig it out, and strap it on and off every time? You might as well just shovel or snowblow. I could have also reluctantly spent twice as much on a Snowbear or Snowsport and rigged it up to fit, but neither was what I needed anyway. Since I built mine, I know its limits, and I know exactly what to do if any adjustments or repairs are needed. Though it is likely that it will not work for what other people need, my little plow works excellent for my requirements, and thats all that matters.


----------



## GeorgeNTeri (Feb 19, 2005)

*ok my two cents*

I have to agree there is a lot of non information that people post here but there is a lot of good information too. I dont have a truck with a plow just a little lawn tractor with a blade and a shovel for my property. I just wish i could afford more but it will not happen but I love reading and getting information in case i someday do put enough away for a plow. Thanks to all it is fun reading and informative good going Crumm you do us proud.
George


----------



## johntwist (Feb 10, 2004)

Wagonman76, that is without a doubt the most ridiculous looking thing I've ever seen in my life, so I have to tell you I admire you for having the balls to stand by it.

You're right, the bottom line is that it does what you need it to do so you don't have to pay someone else to do it. I went out and spent 4 grand on a new plow for two reasons, A) I had the money, and B) I don't think I could ever in a million years build my own plow from scratch and attach it myself, especially not to a car.
It's easy to be judgemental when you can be. But, recently I've had my own personal dose of reality, slash financial scare, and when you really get nervous about money things change drastically. You had a situation where you could not afford to pay someone to deal with that 200' of driveway, yet you were able to come up with a way to get it done at a minimum cost.

If that ain't America, I don't know what is.

I just hope someday your "ship comes in" and you can sit in the cab of a nice new truck with a brand new V plow someday and remember where it all began, because you're certainly earning it now.


----------



## doug96 (Mar 2, 2005)

*never knock it*

i think thats really cool ,my first car was a 6000 4 door, with studded fronts it was unstopable 
you must have made the whole thing your self ,a impressive feat , if it breaks you can fix it , i cannot weld , and my plow needs it bad, i get the funny look from every other truck with a new v-plow and the sweetest new truck , because my set up is crap 
still got to plow though... i bet at some point , you must have plowed out some one ,else a friend ,neighbor ,folks, and why;;; be cause we love to


----------



## justme- (Dec 28, 2004)

I have to say, as a pro plower that has offered advice here I am offended by this post, even tho I know I have never bashed a home plow for it's purpose.

I don't think as much of the lowballers being created here is what you interprit it to be. Many, if not most home plowers only intend to plow their own driveway, which is what personal plowing is. 1 driveway or 2 at most, not yours, your neighbors, your inlaws and a couple lots down the street. Someone earlier mentioned he plows his drive and a small lot- guess what, you're not personal plowing in a parking lot- you're now comercial.

The majority or personal use plowers, I think, decide (reguardless of what they have bought for aplow) that plowing is easy, quick money and why not plow the neighbor that offers him $10, and the other neighbor, and the friend from work, and before you know it you've become a commercial plower instead of a personal plower. Not running a business the converted personal plower doesn't know of, or think about the actual costs and issues in the business so plowing for $10 is simply fast cash.

Now, when people ask "what should I get..." and they are looking to plow only their driveway usually they get an adequite response- but often they have a 200' driveway, up hill, gravel, on a mountain and think they can plow it with a Jeep CJ in New England. Not realistic- and the advice that follows to those kind of posts IS realistic for the job at hand by professionals who have experiance in what it actually will take to handle it and not break prematurly.

You have to weigh realistically the costs and abilities of the equipment and what you want to do. To me, A snow bear would be fine, except from what I have seen here the cost is almost the same as a good plow (like a fisher homesteader)- and that's on par with a pro quality used setup.

It's easy to see why the community of this board has changed and lost so many over the past year. Too many ask for help then complain about the answers they get- and even more offer answers completely incorrect out of ignorance.

Sorry- that's the way I see it.


----------



## Crumm (Nov 5, 2003)

wagonman76 said:


> My little plow works excellent for my requirements, and thats all that matters.


Well put..



justme- said:


> I have to say, as a pro plower that has offered advice here I am offended by this post


I guess you just don't understand. I am sorry.

.


----------



## doug96 (Mar 2, 2005)

*which post*

which post was offensive?


----------



## justme- (Dec 28, 2004)

re-read my post. I take offense that all of the "pros" are being lumped into that catagory.


----------



## Fastcar (Oct 17, 2003)

Crumm said:


> Just my $.02 but it seems that every time someone asks about a plow for there driveway the "professionals" try to advise them to buy a $3000+ plow setup. They then proceed to bash the snowbear and anything else that they think might not withstand there commercial abuse as a "professional". The next step they seem to take is to go to the regular discussion forum and gripe about low ballers. I wonder where a low baller comes from. You think a homeowner that just bought a $3500 plow for his 300ft driveway might decide to plow the local mini mart for beer money. I think so since he just spent his last dollar on a plow that is ten times more plow than he needed.
> 
> This is just my opinion but I do not feel that a homeowner needs to spend a small fortune to plow a driveway that could be shoveled in 20 minutes. Nor does a homeowner need to trade in his family SUV for a one ton super-duty so he can plow out his parking spot. Lets try to keep the personal use forum on track as Personal Use rather than trying to create another thousand low ballers.


I bought a atv with a plow and it does sidewalks and can do driveways. takes longer but get's it done. Take the plow off and it is a toy. A homeowner can get dual use with one imo.

Roy


----------



## lawnandplow42 (Mar 22, 2005)

strap a piece of plywood to the front of your car.

There, thats not too professional of a tip, and i'm not bashing snow bear.


----------



## Ole JIM (Dec 9, 2004)

GEE? I DONO? about all this B/S?--as Were All just Trying to Plow Some SNOW!--& What Dirreance does it Make What YOU Use to Plow it With?-myself! being Retired & Exsisting! on a Low & Fixed INCOME!--& I have too IMPROVISE!--so Intsead of going to my New Plow Dealer! & PAYING--Big Bucks for His New Equipment!--which I can NOT AFFORD!--I Go Plow Shopping at the Salvage Yard!--& usually end Up Dickering & Buying a Good Used ONE!-& Laying in the DIRT to Remove IT--& Drag It HOME & Re-build IT! & Laying the Dirt Again Installing IT!--& Once Its DONE! & Mine Works GREAT! & If? I want to PLOW some Ones? YARD for FREE? or a Cup of Coffee? & Chat a few Minutes!--w/a Neighbor! & if? that Make ME a Low Baller? in the EYES of the PRO Plower?-So be IT!--but I personally Don*t Think SO!--& just so YOU all KNOW!--if Your a PRO Plower? & have Spent Big Bucks for Equipment! & YOUR Affraid of ME?--Taking Away Your Customers?-because I Plow a Freind or Neighbor?--Or Who Ever? I desire to PLOW for FREE!--To BAD!--Get Used to IT! as Its My TRUCK & I*LL DO what Ever I Please w/IT! & Whlie I*M at IT!--Enough of the B/S!--as I Read the POST here & On most Sites! I often Wonder? WHY? most List All of their Equipment?--& Most is NEW or Late Model--I being from the Ole School!--place the Listers of All their Equipment in {{the HEY! LOOK What I got CLUB!}} as Common Scense will Dictate! that Most of the Late Model & especially the New Equipment is Actually OWNED by some BANK!--Well Gentlemen- I Don*t have a Late Model or a New ONE!-But I OWN Mine!--& a Lot of Other STUFF! & As I have Said Before! its NOT how Much MONEY YOU Handel? in any Business!--its how Much of IT YOU can KEEP!--that Really COUNTS!--So Well See YA! at the Coffee Shop!! Where I can Enjoy sippng on My CUP w/Out WORRYING if? I can Make this Months PAYMENTS! or NOT?--Can YOU? ENOUGH SAID! GOD BLESS ALL--Ole-JIM--


----------



## bingermann (Feb 2, 2004)

*Thin Skin!*

Seems to me that a lot of people here have "thin skin" and get offended way too easily. I have a 5 year old and a 3 year old that don't bicker as much as some of you. You know who you are, so try to remember why this forum exists.


----------

