# Commerical sidewalks, about 500 metres or so.



## WarriorLandscapingCan (Sep 22, 2016)

I have a bid for a commercial home building business I was working for during the spring and summer months.

It's an hour drive from me but they are flexible on timing (4 hours after a snowstorm for example)

It took me 2.5 hours today with a snow-blower and shovels, I also salted. (Today there almost a foot of snow down, higher in some areas)

Would my trigger still be 5 cm for this, or would you say higher?

I am asking for $500 + HST per removal if the trigger is 5 cm.

Thoughts?








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View attachment 176226


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## WarriorLandscapingCan (Sep 22, 2016)




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## WarriorLandscapingCan (Sep 22, 2016)

That's about half of the distance in those two pictures.


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## rick W (Dec 17, 2015)

Just an idea but if its a straight shot like that, someone with an atv or tractor with plow could knock that off in no time. If you get it and its an hour drive (roads clear) each way... 2 hours drive..and it takes you 2.5 plus ice melting product and 2.5 hrs of fuel burn and 2 hours of drive time.... you arent getting rich but figure someone local with the right machine would make your price look crazy no?
We have an exercise path at one of our large properties that we do when called only . Atv plows and ice melter sprays it..takes 30 minutes and we charge $400. But, have to have the right machine. Just fyi.


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## WarriorLandscapingCan (Sep 22, 2016)

Yeah man, I hear you, but it's worth a shot until I get better equipment!


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

rick W said:


> Just an idea but if its a straight shot like that, someone with an atv or tractor with plow could knock that off in no time. If you get it and its an hour drive (roads clear) each way... 2 hours drive..and it takes you 2.5 plus ice melting product and 2.5 hrs of fuel burn and 2 hours of drive time.... you arent getting rich but figure someone local with the right machine would make your price look crazy no?
> We have an exercise path at one of our large properties that we do when called only . Atv plows and ice melter sprays it..takes 30 minutes and we charge $400. But, have to have the right machine. Just fyi.


I would use that same thought process, but just sub it out. One sidewalk is not worth a 2 hour round trip. Find a local sidewalk guy and shoot him a number. If your 500, tell him 250 (somewhere in there), and go from there. Have him send you a text when he starts, finishes, and pictures when he's done.

Like said above, that would take no time with an atv.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Does that 500 feet or so include the grass for snow blowing?

How many cm is in a foot?

Why are we mixing metric with the correct way of measuring?


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

1olddogtwo said:


> Does that 500 feet or so include the grass for snow blowing?
> 
> How many cm is in a foot?
> 
> Why are we mixing metric with the correct way of measuring?


Silly Canadians...and most of the world...:laugh::usflag:


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

500 m is 1/2 a kilometer 0.311miles.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

...


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## cjames808 (Dec 18, 2015)

So $1 per meter? Go finance a machine and put some advertising on it. 

“Sidewalks $1 per meter”


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## WarriorLandscapingCan (Sep 22, 2016)

I didn't measure it, it was an estimate. 

I service these guys all spring and summer, they pay big dough.. 

Wouldn't want to sub it out right away, I'd like to make sure its done.

Took me 2.5 hours with 30 + cm of snow, it hadn't been cleared since start of season and my snow-blower was broken (I lost the handle off my toro on the highway ffs, I had to hold the throttle cable the whole time with my hand, lmao)

Regular storms would take me an hour I'm estimating. 

If I landed it at $500 per storm, a bad week could mean a good pay day.

Will keep you gents posted.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Mr.Markus said:


> 500 m is 1/2 a kilometer 0.311miles.


Well that clears everything up, thanks


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## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

500$ per storm? So if you get a 15” event, you’re going to plow it once or every 2”?
You should consider subbing this property out and handling more profitable properties near your home location.
A 2 hour drive in good weather should help pursuade you to sub it out. And charge differently too.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

WarriorLandscapingCan said:


> I have a bid for a commercial home building business I was working for during the spring and summer months.
> 
> It's an hour drive from me but they are flexible on timing (4 hours after a snowstorm for example)
> 
> ...


I'm not up on this CM thing, I would assume your client is requesting a 2'' trigger, I'm not going to get in to somebody crushing you on price all though true you got that parking area for a ton of money IMO.

Round it off to 4 hrs total you are at $125.00 per hr. If you are talking about a sole performance it's okay but don't kill yourself. Did the client agree on the $500.00? I'm not sure what you mean when you say should my 5 cm be higher? what is your client requesting you know scope of job.


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## WarriorLandscapingCan (Sep 22, 2016)

I am awaiting his response, I am not sure I will land this, it would great if I did. He his is asking the local By-law for the trigger amount.

I'll keep ya posted!

(the reason why this one is important to me is because it can lead to me managing this whole property come Springtime, it would be a great asset to my commercial portfolio)


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

WarriorLandscapingCan said:


> I am awaiting his response, I am not sure I will land this, it would great if I did. He his is asking the local By-law for the trigger amount.
> 
> I'll keep ya posted!
> 
> (the reason why this one is important to me is because it can lead to me managing this whole property come Springtime, it would be a great asset to my commercial portfolio)


Of Course Thumbs Up


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## Ice-sage (Nov 9, 2017)

500 meters equals 1640 feet and change.
We charge by the foot. Although I have had fun while bidding or talking to clients and used metric on them. Laughter at the exspense of united states citizens always brightens up your day.

To the original poster WarriorLandscapingCan, please forgive the guys from the US which of whom do not know or were never taught both measuring systems. Thank the cosmos my schools taught and used both throughout my school days.


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## Aerospace Eng (Mar 3, 2015)

Carter's attempt did change drinks...
We went from quarts to liter/2 liter bottles of soda (but not milk), and went from fifths to 750ml bottles for the hard stuff (but kept British units for beer).

To actually answer the question posed by 1Olddog2.... 30.5 cm/foot.


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## Ice-sage (Nov 9, 2017)

Haha. Thanks Aerospace Eng. Wonder who convinced Reagan to abolish the US last chance to convert.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Aerospace Eng said:


> Carter's attempt did change drinks...
> We went from quarts to liter/2 liter bottles of soda (but not milk), and went from fifths to 750ml bottles for the hard stuff (but kept British units for beer).
> 
> To actually answer the question posed by 1Olddog2.... 30.5 cm/foot.


Funny, cause our lumber is still 2x4,2x6 etc so we do get both.


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## Aerospace Eng (Mar 3, 2015)

I just had an epiphany....
Lumber must have gone metric...That's why 2x4s, etc. shrank to toothpick size.

To keep it on topic -- is that 500 m of sidewalk 1m or 1.5m wide?


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Ice-sage said:


> 500 meters equals 1640 feet and change.
> We charge by the foot. Although I have had fun while bidding or talking to clients and used metric on them. Laughter at the exspense of united states citizens always brightens up your day.
> 
> To the original poster WarriorLandscapingCan, please forgive the guys from the US which of whom do not know or were never taught both measuring systems. Thank the cosmos my schools taught and used both throughout my school days.


They probably did teach CM Lol, I'm sure a conversion chart would make bidding very simple if I had to use Canadian numbers. If I was thinking about hiring you in the States you tried to sell me with CM. I would probably just get up and say thank you show you to the door and hope you say by lol.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Aerospace Eng said:


> I just had an epiphany....
> Lumber must have gone metric...That's why 2x4s, etc. shrank to toothpick size.
> 
> To keep it on topic -- is that 500 m of sidewalk 1m or 1.5m wide?


I got to bid some sidewalk not plowing installation. Now I'm all discombobulated lol.


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## Ice-sage (Nov 9, 2017)

FredG said:


> They probably did teach CM Lol, I'm sure a conversion chart would make bidding very simple if I had to use Canadian numbers. If I was thinking about hiring you in the States you tried to sell me with CM. I would probably just get up and say thank you show you to the door and hope you say by lol.


The responses from male or female property managers or property owners would astound you. Usually you get the "can I get this in english please?". Have gotten the "what is this chinese crap?" a few times. Two months ago from a female property manager in her late 60's she said "either your pig latin is really rough or these numbers are just complete jibberish. I generally only do the metric thing if I feel the company that is begging us for a bid is not worthy of mine or my buisnesses time.


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## Ice-sage (Nov 9, 2017)

Aerospace Eng don't get me started on dimensional lumber products measurements. I love woodworking and carpentry. But will only use metric for those purposes.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

Excuse my ignorance I measure everything with my four foot yard stick


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## eandabailey (Jan 9, 2018)

Ice-sage said:


> 500 meters equals 1640 feet and change.
> We charge by the foot. Although I have had fun while bidding or talking to clients and used metric on them. Laughter at the exspense of united states citizens always brightens up your day.
> 
> To the original poster WarriorLandscapingCan, please forgive the guys from the US which of whom do not know or were never taught both measuring systems. Thank the cosmos my schools taught and used both throughout my school days.


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## eandabailey (Jan 9, 2018)

Ice-sage said:


> 500 meters equals 1640 feet and change.
> We charge by the foot. Although I have had fun while bidding or talking to clients and used metric on them. Laughter at the exspense of united states citizens always brightens up your day.
> 
> To the original poster WarriorLandscapingCan, please forgive the guys from the US which of whom do not know or were never taught both measuring systems. Thank the cosmos my schools taught and used both throughout my school days.


Ice Sage, if you don't mind me asking, what do you charge by the foot? I have a property with 1700 sq ft (USPS) and trying to determine what the best way to price it would be. (Sidewalk, shoveling) Thanks


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## WarriorLandscapingCan (Sep 22, 2016)

Taking care of business!


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## WarriorLandscapingCan (Sep 22, 2016)

These pictures are about half the length (if that) of the sidewalks I'm doing.
I did the last run in an hour flat, I gave her like a sum *****!
This was after doing 11 driveways myself, and then driving down to Guelph for this run, was in the gym the day before, can't say I haven't been sore these past 2 days, :laugh:
$500 + HST per run, 1 hour drive there, 1 hour work, 1 hour drive home. I'll take it!


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## Ice-sage (Nov 9, 2017)

You sir are a trooper.


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## Ice-sage (Nov 9, 2017)

eandabailey said:


> Ice Sage, if you don't mind me asking, what do you charge by the foot? I have a property with 1700 sq ft (USPS) and trying to determine what the best way to price it would be. (Sidewalk, shoveling) Thanks


Since we are in WarriorLandscapingCan's thread, lets use his numbers as an example.

He stated he has 500 meters of sidewalk to clear. Lets put that into feet and then we'll figure out the square feet.

500 meters in length = 1640 feet (+ a few inches)
He didn't specify the width of the sidewalk, so lets just say 4 feet wide.

Length in feet times width in feet equals square feet.
1640x4=6560 square feet of sidewalk.

He said he gave a bid of 500 Canadien pesos for that job. Lets just say 500 bucks.

So with quick math you'd come up with
6560÷500.00=13.12. Move your decimal two places left and you come up with a hair over 13 cents per square foot.

Remember this is just a simple guesstimate and quick math to get you ballpark numbers. Each company will have their own numbers. Alloted time plus labor plus other aggregate numbers to make thier business work. Also remember this lesson was in Canadien currency.

I can't share our numbers for walks, although we are in the state next to you going west. Best advice I can give you is to make sure you are measuring precisely. Know what those measurements mean. Never EVER go by the measurements some entity gives you. Always measure for your own self. Once you get the correct measurements you can play with the dollars and cents to get you where you need to be if you are using square feet.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Ice-sage said:


> Since we are in WarriorLandscapingCan's thread, lets use his numbers as an example.
> 
> He stated he has 500 meters of sidewalk to clear. Lets put that into feet and then we'll figure out the square feet.
> 
> ...


2 problems.

#1 If you're going to convert everything to US for him, you should to do the dollar too. $500cad is about $400usd.

#2 Your math is wrong (it happens). Need to flip flop your sqft and dollar amount.

So, with his numbers you're looking at $400 ÷ 6560sqft = $.06 sqft.
Even at $500, your looking at around (a little less than) $.08 sqft.

If you multiply your $.13 by 6560sqft, you'll end up with around $853. That's a good way to double check numbers like that.


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## Ice-sage (Nov 9, 2017)

Whoopsie on the math. (Note to self, don't read two monitors at once and do math on a cell phone. Hah)

Yes i did not convert CAN to USD. It was just an example. I agree in that you must double or triple check your numbers and math. It is of extreme importance to do just that. 

By seeing the numbers around my neck of the woods for sidewalks, it seems most companies don't factor in the width. I have seen tons of quotes with just stated per foot lenghts. For me personally I'd like to be compensated for the entire length x width aka the actual square feet. And one wonders how you can be so, as the saying in this industry goes, "low balled" on bids.


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## Ice-sage (Nov 9, 2017)

Thanks for the correction JMHConstruction.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

Ice-sage said:


> Thanks for the correction JMHConstruction.


Thumbs UpGlad you took it like you did. Wasn't trying to start drama, just didn't want either of them using your numbers, and then not being able to figure out why they never land another job.


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## iceyman (Mar 1, 2007)

JMHConstruction said:


> Thumbs UpGlad you took it like you did. Wasn't trying to start drama, just didn't want either of them using your numbers, and then not being able to figure out why they never land another job.


One big happy family in here


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## WarriorLandscapingCan (Sep 22, 2016)

Guys just to be clear I never actually measured the length, I estimated.

Lol, maybe should of mentioned that.


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## WarriorLandscapingCan (Sep 22, 2016)

How do you gentlemen treat freezing rain warnings?

It's currently raining here and my driveway is pretty slick, am I obliged to go salt my small commercial parking lot?
( I emailed the property manager today, didn't get a reply)

I was there two days ago and salted, 

In the contract I wrote: Salting when necessary

But I also wrote: 5 cm of snow accumulation is required for a service.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Tim, use this https://www.findlotsize.com/ to measure your walks. Hint: don't copy and paste the location online. Too many guys in Guelph you gotta worry about...

Also I presalted this morning and it did nothing to hold it. I was out salting again when the calls began about 4pm. Home for the night and out in early am. Don't be fooled by the temps, the rain is drawing the frost out of the ground and freezing on contact.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Ice-sage said:


> Whoopsie on the math. (Note to self, don't read two monitors at once and do math on a cell phone. Hah)
> 
> Yes i did not convert CAN to USD. It was just an example. I agree in that you must double or triple check your numbers and math. It is of extreme importance to do just that.
> 
> By seeing the numbers around my neck of the woods for sidewalks, it seems most companies don't factor in the width. I have seen tons of quotes with just stated per foot lenghts. For me personally I'd like to be compensated for the entire length x width aka the actual square feet. And one wonders how you can be so, as the saying in this industry goes, "low balled" on bids.


Who don't factor the width??? The width don't count in SQ FT? Are you the guy that gets off on using CM with US citizens,


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

WarriorLandscapingCan said:


> Guys just to be clear I never actually measured the length, I estimated.
> 
> Lol, maybe should of mentioned that.


Well I hope so. lol


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

FredG said:


> Well I hope so. lol


Edit... Never measured the width lol, I mean technically I can see the difference between 3 4 5' walk, I still like to measure could be 3.5 not that it would change my price. Just saying.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

WarriorLandscapingCan said:


> How do you gentlemen treat freezing rain warnings?
> 
> It's currently raining here and my driveway is pretty slick, am I obliged to go salt my small commercial parking lot?
> ( I emailed the property manager today, didn't get a reply)
> ...


Commercial, I would go out and salt.

Freezing rain is hard. You go out too early, and it gets washed away. If you wait too long, everything is an ice rink. Just have to keep an eye out, and try to catch that sweet spot.


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## WarriorLandscapingCan (Sep 22, 2016)

Thanks guys, I did end up indeed going out and salting the lot.

Is it up to the property manager to notify me about icy patches?

I feel like if I ask him to notify me and he doesn't, then it's up to him to communicate with me, as he "manages the property".

Tonight for example, it is above zero until early Friday morning, If I salt it tonight at 10 pm, I'm sure it will wash away.

I really don't want to wake up at 3 am to salt one small parking lot, 

I was planning on making my way around there tomorrow mid-morning, around 10 am or so.


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## WarriorLandscapingCan (Sep 22, 2016)

Mr.Markus said:


> Tim, use this https://www.findlotsize.com/ to measure your walks. Hint: don't copy and paste the location online. Too many guys in Guelph you gotta worry about...
> 
> Also I presalted this morning and it did nothing to hold it. I was out salting again when the calls began about 4pm. Home for the night and out in early am. Don't be fooled by the temps, the rain is drawing the frost out of the ground and freezing on contact.


Amazing Markus, you have a tip and trick for everything, lol. Thank you.

Hint: don't copy and paste the location online. Too many guys in Guelph you gotta worry about...

What do you mean by that, don't I have to paste the address in there to get the result?


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

WarriorLandscapingCan said:


> Amazing Markus, you have a tip and trick for everything, lol. Thank you.
> 
> Hint: don't copy and paste the location online. Too many guys in Guelph you gotta worry about...
> 
> What do you mean by that, don't I have to paste the address in there to get the result?


He means don't post it on here


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## iceyman (Mar 1, 2007)

WarriorLandscapingCan said:


> I really don't want to wake up at 3 am to salt one small parking lot


Then you might be in the wrong business.. i mean 3 am is too early but between 5-6 am is when you should be out


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

WarriorLandscapingCan said:


> Amazing Markus, you have a tip and trick for everything, lol. Thank you.
> 
> Hint: don't copy and paste the location online. Too many guys in Guelph you gotta worry about...
> 
> What do you mean by that, don't I have to paste the address in there to get the result?


Mr Markus is meaning don't post on PS or some lizard in that area will try to grab it on you.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

FredG said:


> Mr Markus is meaning don't post on PS or some lizard in that area will try to grab it on you.


Yes, that is what I am meaning...that and I don't need to be tempted.


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## WarriorLandscapingCan (Sep 22, 2016)

iceyman said:


> Then you might be in the wrong business.. i mean 3 am is too early but between 5-6 am is when you should be out


I understand it's just that our contract doesn't touch base on freezing rain and flash freezes. 
For the future maybe I should indicate this as a clearly stated clause.
What do you guys include in terms of freezing rain and flash freezing?


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## iceyman (Mar 1, 2007)

WarriorLandscapingCan said:


> I understand it's just that our contract doesn't touch base on freezing rain and flash freezes.
> For the future maybe I should indicate this as a clearly stated clause.
> What do you guys include in terms of freezing rain and flash freezing?


Salt when needed


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

WarriorLandscapingCan said:


> I understand it's just that our contract doesn't touch base on freezing rain and flash freezes.
> For the future maybe I should indicate this as a clearly stated clause.
> What do you guys include in terms of freezing rain and flash freezing?


Mine says something like, "apply salt at contractors discretion"

Last year I had a customer who wanted me to call before doing anything. Only took a few 2am phone calls to change that. I'll never deal with another contract like that again either. It's my ass on the line, I'll salt when I feel it's needed.


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## JMHConstruction (Aug 22, 2011)

To give you an idea, today we had quite a bit of freezing rain. I went out this morning right before the rain started freezing, then went out a few hours later after lots started to freeze (salt had melted), and am getting ready to go out again in about an hour now that cars have started clearing out (to hit everything again, including parking spots I couldn't hit this morning.

Probably an over kill (most of my stuff is as a subcontractor), but the risk is pretty low, because we have done everything we can to keep the lot safe.


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## eandabailey (Jan 9, 2018)

Ice-sage said:


> Since we are in WarriorLandscapingCan's thread, lets use his numbers as an example.
> 
> He stated he has 500 meters of sidewalk to clear. Lets put that into feet and then we'll figure out the square feet.
> 
> ...


Thank you Ice Sage, I appreciate the reply. I didn't see it until now, but we actually did do as you suggested. We measured ourselves, and played around with the numbers, gave the price and they ended up looking around (guessing for a better deal) and must not have found one. Makes me think we went too low, but we feel it's worth it, so we're good. Appreciate the advice! Have a great weekend!


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