# Plowing Driveways?



## Livingreen (Nov 12, 2004)

I see alot of you plow driveways. We have always stayed away from residential driveways and stuck to the commercial end of things. Although this year I have picked up a community where they posted our name in there news letter for plowing driveways and truthfully I do not know how to charge for these. They mostly are two cars wide and two cars deep. Any help would be great.


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## JDiepstra (Sep 15, 2008)

Livingreen;653767 said:


> I see alot of you plow driveways. We have always stayed away from residential driveways and stuck to the commercial end of things. Although this year I have picked up a community where they posted our name in there news letter for plowing driveways and truthfully I do not know how to charge for these. They mostly are two cars wide and two cars deep. Any help would be great.


How many snow events do you get there per season?

I prefer to charge a per season price for a driveway so it depends on how many times I expect to be plowing. All this per push and per inch crap is too much time wasted on paperwork!


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## mercer_me (Sep 13, 2008)

$15 to $20 per push is the going rate around hear for a driveway that small.


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## G-rott (Aug 24, 2003)

*All in one comunity...*

$15-20 if the drive has enough room to stack snow. Drives grouped like that are worth a mint up here. I would be at 18-19 trying to get the most $ out of each while beating out the every drive - every where is $20 crowed.payup

Garett


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## Gicon (Oct 1, 2005)

LIVING, here thats a $30 driveway, $35 if you are good. You cant make money charging $15 and $20. JD, who thinks that charging by push or inch is too much paperwork, you might want to take some business management courses, as that is the only way to make money in this business. Giving a "one size fits all" price, for the month, is no way to run a business.


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## merrimacmill (Apr 18, 2007)

I have a $35 local minimum price. Meaning, I don't have to drive more than 15-20 minutes to get to it. But to me, it just makes no sense to go out and do a driveway for less than that. and I've never been turned down at that price. But it does all depend on your area, and around here there is a lot of money floating around so people dont care as much.


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## Woodland (Sep 17, 2005)

mercer_me;653774 said:


> $15 to $20 per push is the going rate around hear for a driveway that small.


Are you kidding me? I wouldn't slow down for that price.


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## JDiepstra (Sep 15, 2008)

Gicon;653858 said:


> LIVING, here thats a $30 driveway, $35 if you are good. You cant make money charging $15 and $20. JD, who thinks that charging by push or inch is too much paperwork, you might want to take some business management courses, as that is the only way to make money in this business. Giving a "one size fits all" price, for the month, is no way to run a business.


I've got a degree and several licenses to manage money and bind insurance policies as well. Thanks for the advice.


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## Gicon (Oct 1, 2005)

JDiepstra;653880 said:


> I've got a degree and several licenses to manage money and bind insurance policies as well. Thanks for the advice.


All of the certifications, licenses, and class work cant teach the common sense needed to make money in the Snow and Ice Industry.


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## JDiepstra (Sep 15, 2008)

Gicon;653884 said:


> All of the certifications, licenses, and class work cant teach the common sense needed, to make money in the Snow and Ice Industry.


Sorry but you were the one who just said to take some classes! So now you disagree with yourself? You put a comma where one was not needed. Take a class!


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## Gicon (Oct 1, 2005)

JD, how do you pay for a Boss 9'2" V Plow at $15 and $20 a whack????????


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Gicon;653858 said:


> LIVING, here thats a $30 driveway, $35 if you are good. You cant make money charging $15 and $20. JD, who thinks that charging by push or inch is too much paperwork, you might want to take some business management courses, as that is the only way to make money in this business. Giving a "one size fits all" price, for the month, is no way to run a business.


Hmm, all my stuff is monthly, can you send me to some good buisness management courses. Oh and I guess Neige might be joining me also, he only does like 4000 driveways and a few small 25 acre lots monthly.


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## Gicon (Oct 1, 2005)

JD Dave;653914 said:


> Hmm, all my stuff is monthly, can you send me to some good buisness management courses. Oh and I guess Neige might be joining me also, he only does like 4000 driveways and a few small 25 acre lots monthly.


Well, first, you should learn how to spell the word "business"


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Gicon;653919 said:


> Well, first, you should learn how to spell the word "business"


Thanks I appreciate that, so your avoiding my question then.


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## Gicon (Oct 1, 2005)

JD Dave;653914 said:


> Hmm, all my stuff is monthly, can you send me to some good buisness management courses. Oh and I guess Neige might be joining me also, he only does like 4000 driveways and a few small 25 acre lots monthly.


How would you like me to send you "courses" UPS? FEDEX??????????????? I cant send out coursework JD. Please keep your requests within reason, and I would be glad to help out someone in need.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Gicon;653926 said:


> How would you like me to send you "courses" UPS? FEDEX??????????????? I cant send out coursework JD. Please keep your requests within reason, and I would be glad to help out someone in need.


You said monthly was no way to run a buisness, and I say it is and I'm living proof and so is Paul, so stop giving bad advice.


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## Gicon (Oct 1, 2005)

JD Dave;653937 said:


> You said monthly was no way to run a buisness, and I say it is and I'm living proof and so is Paul, so stop giving bad advice.


You stop giving bad advice.


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## big acres (Nov 8, 2007)

Enough guys... what I want to know is how any of those who actually do nothing but driveways at $15 a pop make a living at it. A first class stamp to mail the invoice is 2.8% of your gross revenue! If you do have amazing route density... like someone with 400 drives OR you use them as filler between your commercisl stuff, then great. But really... one guy, one truck, $15 per drive -how much do you gross per snowfall?


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## Gicon (Oct 1, 2005)

big acres;653966 said:


> Enough guys... what I want to know is how any of those who actually do nothing but driveways at $15 a pop make a living at it. A first class stamp to mail the invoice is 2.8% of your gross revenue! If you do have amazing route density... like someone with 400 drives OR you use them as filler between your commercisl stuff, then great. But really... one guy, one truck, $15 per drive -how much do you gross per snowfall?


Big, I am with you. I dont know where they get there plows either, but where mine come from, they cost over $5,000. Maybe their demographic is that drastically different than mine or yours.


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## Gicon (Oct 1, 2005)

*$1,000 per hour*



big acres;653966 said:


> Enough guys... what I want to know is how any of those who actually do nothing but driveways at $15 a pop make a living at it. A first class stamp to mail the invoice is 2.8% of your gross revenue! If you do have amazing route density... like someone with 400 drives OR you use them as filler between your commercisl stuff, then great. But really... one guy, one truck, $15 per drive -how much do you gross per snowfall?


The only thing that would make sense to me, is those guys are doing 65-70 of those driveways an hour, to make a decent hourly pay. The only way you can do that many for that little money is in a condo complex, or the like.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

big acres;653966 said:


> Enough guys... what I want to know is how any of those who actually do nothing but driveways at $15 a pop make a living at it. A first class stamp to mail the invoice is 2.8% of your gross revenue! If you do have amazing route density... like someone with 400 drives OR you use them as filler between your commercisl stuff, then great. But really... one guy, one truck, $15 per drive -how much do you gross per snowfall?


Can't be done with a truck but with an inverted blower it is possible. You have to make your seasonal price reasonable enough to basically get the whole street and then you go from there. I think Neige aims for about 150 drives / tractor and it takes less then 4 hours to do the route.


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## RODHALL (Nov 23, 2005)

I have a Home Owners Association, that we do all 40 driveways, $45 per drive. but there all real easy... push in past garage, push turn around, widen going out. each house is 40ft back off the road to the front of the house...


i try and stay away from one house here one there, unless it is longer drive.


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## big acres (Nov 8, 2007)

RODHALL;653998 said:


> I have a Home Owners Association, that we do all 40 driveways, $45 per drive. but there all real easy... push in past garage, push turn around, widen going out. each house is 40ft back off the road to the front of the house...
> 
> i try and stay away from one house here one there, unless it is longer drive.


We do mainly HOA and commercial. I consider HOA different than resi dential drives because it is one point of contact and one bill... which can be $5-10k per month.

JD... you guys get enough snow to cut out the truck competition alot of the time. I can see where Neiges tractors can pull that volume even in heavy storms and allow him to wage serious battle with prices -nearly untouchable production rates. Tell me more about the inverted blower?


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

http://www.pronovost.qc.ca/pxpla.html Not the best vid but it gives you some idea of what I'm talking about.


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## BlackIrish (Dec 22, 2007)

Inverted blower faces back of tractor, back into drive w/blower up, drop at garage door, blow snow onto lawn as you drive out. Works sweet.


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## jgoetter1 (Feb 23, 2007)

The key to residentials is keeping several centrally located, from there you can figure your 'hourly' rate and do the math for each individual driveway, depending upon how much you need per hour. 

Where guys go wrong with residentials, is the travel between them.


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## BlackIrish (Dec 22, 2007)

For 20 yrs I've done resi's w/4x4's ,still do tons with them. For 10 yrs I've steadily lost work to tractor blower dudes. I let the competition grow to 20 tractors w/2700 resi's.
**** it. :yow!:
I got tractors after last years record,8cm short, snowfall. My area is nowhere near as tight as Neige. But by the 3rd run,today, the guys were 60% faster than the first run, gps went in this am, farm boys didn't know the city all that well. 
The tractors are doing 8/hr ea, which is what a pick up used to do, and will only get faster and do denser routes. Tractors seem to be the flavour of the month up here its what people want. Managed to quadruple the resi's in the tractor area from last year.


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## big acres (Nov 8, 2007)

Those are sweet. You guys do it right up there. We work a truck and skid team using a "back-drag" or pull-box attachment that we manufacture. Skid pulls it out, truck pushes it up or carries it to a place to stack... pretty efficient, and mobile too. One of guys came up with a modification... testing the prototype if it ever snows here and filing for patent pending status. If all goes well who knows?


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## BlackIrish (Dec 22, 2007)

JD Dave;654013 said:


> http://www.pronovost.qc.ca/pxpla.html Not the best vid but it gives you some idea of what I'm talking about.


That sweet baby will set you back $14 K+

I want one or 20.


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## BlackIrish (Dec 22, 2007)

big acres;654029 said:


> Those are sweet. You guys do it right up there. We work a truck and skid team using a "back-drag" or pull-box attachment that we manufacture. Skid pulls it out, truck pushes it up or carries it to a place to stack... pretty efficient, and mobile too. One of guys came up with a modification... testing the prototype if it ever snows here and filing for patent pending status. If all goes well who knows?


Pro Tech has a pull back, I know I have 3 of em.


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## big acres (Nov 8, 2007)

BlackIrish;654037 said:


> Pro Tech has a pull back, I know I have 3 of em.


Does it swivel or is it rigid? We looked at everything on the market and they were all rigid and operated with loader arms obstructing operator's view. Our design solved both issues.

I would bet a 2 speed machine with a pull box against a tractor on the typical 1-4" snowfalls that we get down here, but I am sure those tractors really are the shiat for the deeper snowfalss you guys get.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

big acres;654043 said:


> Does it swivel or is it rigid? We looked at everything on the market and they were all rigid and operated with loader arms obstructing operator's view. Our design solved both issues.
> 
> I would bet a 2 speed machine with a pull box against a tractor on the typical 1-4" snowfalls that we get down here, but I am sure those tractors really are the shiat for the deeper snowfalss you guys get.


Not even close, the blower doesn't have to push up at the end and the visibility is twice as good.


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## BlackIrish (Dec 22, 2007)

By the end of last season we had 14+ft, I was having to use a backhoe to do resi's. Tractors drove thru anything and blew snow all over the lawn. Density of route is a factor for either tractor or bobcat. We use lots of bobcats for tight downtown properties but even those properties ran out of room last year.
The pullback Sno pusher is rigid, but your design is probably diff than theirs.


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## kootoomootoo (May 11, 2000)

I am always amazed at you guys doing lots grossing 100hr *****in the resi guy doing 10 drives an hour for $15-20ea cant be making any money.


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## RepoMan207 (Oct 7, 2008)

mercer_me;653774 said:


> $15 to $20 per push is the going rate around hear for a driveway that small.


I thank god your 50 miles north of me man. I wouldn't push a 20' drive for that.


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## big acres (Nov 8, 2007)

JD Dave;654050 said:


> Not even close, the blower doesn't have to push up at the end and the visibility is twice as good.


True... I am looking at the truck/skid combo -not to mention that I've never run an inverted blower, lol. For us this is the most versatile method. We can load up and move to another HOA with 100 drives easily, and once the skid is unloaded the truck can even break away to handle a small lot nearby, giving the skid time to pull snow for the truck to handle when it returns. We cover about a 75 mile radius, so mobility is crucial for us.


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## big acres (Nov 8, 2007)

BlackIrish;654055 said:


> By the end of last season we had 14+ft, I was having to use a backhoe to do resi's. Tractors drove thru anything and blew snow all over the lawn. Density of route is a factor for either tractor or bobcat. We use lots of bobcats for tight downtown properties but even those properties ran out of room last year.
> The pullback Sno pusher is rigid, but your design is probably diff than theirs.


Yeah... apples to oranges. We get maybe 4-5 ft total per season. I can see where your tractors would be the workhorse of your fleet. We found that the wider rigid boxes would skim over low spots or drives with multiple planes which is the reason for the swivel.


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## JDiepstra (Sep 15, 2008)

Gicon;653900 said:


> JD, how do you pay for a Boss 9'2" V Plow at $15 and $20 a whack????????


I haven't posted anything about a price. Where are you getting this info?


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## BlackIrish (Dec 22, 2007)

I think I've seen a swivel like you mention.
Your truck/skid idea will work but loading and unloading bobby will get old real fast not to mention unpinning and repinning trailer. 
Been there, done,that,got the T shirt.


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## big acres (Nov 8, 2007)

BlackIrish;654069 said:


> I think I've seen a swivel like you mention.
> Your truck/skid idea will work but loading and unloading bobby will get old real fast not to mention unpinning and repinning trailer.
> Been there, done,that,got the T shirt.


Always hated the loading part... our guys are pretty quick about it though. Lucky for me I am selling the accounts now and running a truck if needed.


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## big acres (Nov 8, 2007)

Livinggreen... Sorry, I think we hijacked your thread.


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## BlackIrish (Dec 22, 2007)

Then you need to be thinking efficiency, tilt and load trailer and anything else that will improve repetitve tasks ( load/unload for eg )
And your guys will get tired of it soon enough trust me.


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## IMAGE (Oct 21, 2007)

Gicon;653858 said:


> LIVING, here thats a $30 driveway, $35 if you are good. You cant make money charging $15 and $20. JD, who thinks that charging by push or inch is too much paperwork, you might want to take some business management courses, as that is the only way to make money in this business. Giving a "one size fits all" price, for the month, is no way to run a business.


ok thanks for the advice 

There are alot of ways to skin a cat. And alot of different business models to chose from on how to run a successful business. Giving a broad "one size fits all" statement about business practices is naive.


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## JDiepstra (Sep 15, 2008)

big acres;653966 said:


> Enough guys... what I want to know is how any of those who actually do nothing but driveways at $15 a pop make a living at it. A first class stamp to mail the invoice is 2.8% of your gross revenue! If you do have amazing route density... like someone with 400 drives OR you use them as filler between your commercisl stuff, then great. But really... one guy, one truck, $15 per drive -how much do you gross per snowfall?


OK, I can't believe we are having so much trouble with this. Here is how it works... You charge a rate that is low enough that you can get MANY houses in a VERY CLOSE area. If you charge $15 per drive and knock out 20 driveways in an hour. That is $300 per hour. Lets say you can only do 15 driveways in an hour. That's still $225 an hour. Who here can make $225 to $300 per hour using the same truck you would use to plow driveways, to plow a lot? Pretty much nobody.

The guys who say they wouldn't slow down to do a drive for $20 are the same guys who are driving 10 minutes between driveways and don't seem to grasp that closer is better.

And if I were charging per push I would not send a bill every time! Send it out bi weekly or monthly or something.


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## BlackIrish (Dec 22, 2007)

I've heard that 20 houses each on 7 adjoining streets for a total of 140 resi's can be done in about 4 hrs with tractor blowers, do the math. Have seen a vid with 5 in 5 minutes. I can't wait.


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## JDiepstra (Sep 15, 2008)

BlackIrish;654092 said:


> I've heard that 20 houses each on 7 adjoining streets for a total of 140 resi's can be done in about 4 hrs with tractor blowers, do the math. Have seen a vid with 5 in 5 minutes. I can't wait.


Ok so at $15 per drive that is $525 per hour.

$20 per drive is $700 per hour.

$25 per drive is $875 per hour.

Sounds like closer is better!


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## murray83 (Dec 3, 2005)

Hmmm I'd be lucky to get $25 fer a small double wide around here,guess I'm wasting my time eh 

Residential accounts can be very profitable if done the right way,a tight route,proper equipment,and word of mouth a 3 major keys to success with them.The best people to pick brains around here in driveways is Neige and Plowmeister both are doing well in their markets and can give ideas you may have never thought of.


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## Indy (Sep 23, 2007)

JD Dave;653914 said:


> Hmm, all my stuff is monthly, can you send me to some good buisness management courses. Oh and I guess Neige might be joining me also, he only does like 4000 driveways and a few small 25 acre lots monthly.


Nice analogy/tutorial lesson there Dave........


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## Blink74 (Feb 16, 2007)

We do several of our residential lawn care customers. I charge a minimum of $40 per push and most are a 2" trigger so we don't plow them very often. I explain that our commercial accounts come first and that in a snow emergency we don't do walks. This service makes them more dependent on us and is good business sense.


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## mercer_me (Sep 13, 2008)

Woodland;653865 said:


> Are you kidding me? I wouldn't slow down for that price.


I said that was the going rate in my area not your area.


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## mercer_me (Sep 13, 2008)

RepoMan207;654058 said:


> I thank god your 50 miles north of me man.


I thank god your 50 miles south of me. And since your 50 miles south of me you don't get nearly as much snow as I do.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

mercer_me;654431 said:


> I thank god your 50 miles south of me. And since your 50 miles south of me you don't get nearly as much snow as I do.


The day had to come, where i had to agree with something Mercer said. The amount of snow you get has a direct relation to pricing, plain and simple.


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## RepoMan207 (Oct 7, 2008)

Mercer......Everytime.....it never fails. If you knew what you were talking about half the time, you may actually be tolerable.

OMFG Mercer.........You got a whole 7" more then me last year. Holly Sh** bro! What ever will I do man, I am so freaking jealous of you and your 7". 

Do you want a sub job? I could make some money off you. That is if you actually have a plow and have used it before.


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## kootoomootoo (May 11, 2000)

The same guy that wont stop for $40 a driveway has the grand total of one truck running and 1000 revenue per push ...while the guy charging 15-20 has 7 or 8 trucks going and 6000+
rev per push.

I'll take the second business plan anyday.

I have lost count of all the guys on here and ls that thought they were supermodels and didnt get out of bed for less that $100. (allegedly).

Except they are no longer around.


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## RepoMan207 (Oct 7, 2008)

Dragon.......Sure, but where talking about a guy with an _*alleged*_ 89 p/u and a 4-wheeler in the back woods of ME here. There is no comparison.

Let me point this out to you well were on the subject, The reason for a lower price in those situation your talking about, is lower overhead per unit. More accounts per capita is a no brainier. Now, Maine........Conjestion, this is the only sentence where you could use both words in one sentence.

Ask Mercer what the population of his town is.

Here is a link to there website...Lots of information there! Mercer, Me

Total population 640.

I wouldn't pass a drive for $40, I don't know many that would either. My average _*is*_ $40 - $60 a drive depending on size. But $20 a drive.......maybe to a senior with a drive way no bigger then my truck.


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

Wow miss 1 day and look what happens. I do both resi and commercial. I make more money with my resi. I only have 2700 drives and we do it with 18 tractors. Thats 150 each, some of my new employees do less and others do more. Single drive is 270 for the season ( around 450 sq ft) and a double is 300 ( around 600 sq ft.). No walkways or salting. Average winter is 200 cm or 80 inches, usually in 18 events, so we hit our clients around 60 times a season.
All my contracts are prepay. Meaning you pay up front, for new clients who don't know us halve up front the other halve Jan. 1 in a post dated check. This way we don't chase our money, and its 1 letter and a stamp. You only get driveway stakes once we receive payment. My employees are paid a salary for the season. Every 2 weeks they get paid snow or no snow. A tractor run is less than 1 sq mile. Roughly 10 streets with 15 clients each. A tractor costs around $60,000 and the blower around 8,000.00 The tractor is good for 15 years min. and will still have a value of around $15,000. The maintenance will be around 1 grand a year max. Tractor costs around $12 an hr on fuel, average year 120 hrs.
There is the nuts and bolts of my business. This works for me, you have to know your own numbers, to charge accordingly. But please don't tell me I make no money doing resi.
If you did the math it comes out to 50 cents a sq ft. on average. I don't come close to that with commercial. Lastly I do all this, in under 15 sq miles. Long live the tractor with an inversed snowblower, a unique Canadian product.tymusic


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Neige;654600 said:


> Wow miss 1 day and look what happens. I do both resi and commercial. I make more money with my resi. I only have 2700 drives and we do it with 18 tractors. Thats 150 each, some of my new employees do less and others do more. Single drive is 270 for the season ( around 450 sq ft) and a double is 300 ( around 600 sq ft.). No walkways or salting. Average winter is 200 cm or 80 inches, usually in 18 events, so we hit our clients around 60 times a season.
> All my contracts are prepay. Meaning you pay up front, for new clients who don't know us halve up front the other halve Jan. 1 in a post dated check. This way we don't chase our money, and its 1 letter and a stamp. You only get driveway stakes once we receive payment. My employees are paid a salary for the season. Every 2 weeks they get paid snow or no snow. A tractor run is less than 1 sq mile. Roughly 10 streets with 15 clients each. A tractor costs around $60,000 and the blower around 8,000.00 The tractor is good for 15 years min. and will still have a value of around $15,000. The maintenance will be around 1 grand a year max. Tractor costs around $12 an hr on fuel, average year 120 hrs.
> There is the nuts and bolts of my business. This works for me, you have to know your own numbers, to charge accordingly. But please don't tell me I make no money doing resi.
> If you did the math it comes out to 50 cents a sq ft. on average. I don't come close to that with commercial. Lastly I do all this, in under 15 sq miles. Long live the tractor with an inversed snowblower, a unique Canadian product.tymusic


Thanks for clearing that up Paul. I didn't mean to drag you into this thread. Some good vids this winter would really clear things up for the nonbeleivers.


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

Totally agree, I may have to go up to Ottawa for the vids since not much going on in Montreal. Than again it may hit the fan this Monday.
To clear up another burning question, we charge $40 for a drive by.


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## Indy (Sep 23, 2007)

kootoomootoo;654056 said:


> I am always amazed at you guys doing lots grossing 100hr *****in the resi guy doing 10 drives an hour for $15-20ea cant be making any money.


You can't be.

Yes you may have some pocket money to get drunk on but you can't sustain business...........IE, Trucks, Insurance, Fuel, PROPER maintenance...........

You might not go around poking the big guys in the eye. They have already built a successful company and have it figured out.

What do you think your true cost is to do a $15 to $20 drive..............just get me close.


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## Woodland (Sep 17, 2005)

RepoMan207;654597 said:


> The reason for a lower price in those situation your talking about, is lower overhead per unit. More accounts per capita is a no brainier. Now, Maine........


Exactly. This ain't the big city. If you can get 3 or 4 drives "next door" to each other you are doing really well. This is a rural state with many areas more so than others. I am in one of those rural areas, although not quite as much as Mercer. It takes time to go from account to account which costs money. Another side effect to a rural client el is that most driveways are not "standard sizes", i.e. they are much longer, wider and bumpier than the ones you city folk have.

So, kootoomootoo, while I understand what you are saying and that has merit in a larger community, out here in the sticks, you will run yourself ragged in short order if you try to service accounts for $15 or $20, regardless of how many trucks you run.


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## kootoomootoo (May 11, 2000)

Woodland;654648 said:


> Exactly. This ain't the big city. If you can get 3 or 4 drives "next door" to each other you are doing really well. This is a rural state with many areas more so than others. I am in one of those rural areas, although not quite as much as Mercer. It takes time to go from account to account which costs money. Another side effect to a rural client el is that most driveways are not "standard sizes", i.e. they are much longer, wider and bumpier than the ones you city folk have.
> 
> So, kootoomootoo, while I understand what you are saying and that has merit in a larger community, out here in the sticks, you will run yourself ragged in short order if you try to service accounts for $15 or $20, regardless of how many trucks you run.


I agree with your business plan in the sticks but re-read my post. You both agree you would rather make $100 per hr doing commerical than $150-$200 hr doing residential.

Might want to check the customer retention stats commercial v residential.


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## RepoMan207 (Oct 7, 2008)

kootoomootoo;654701 said:


> I agree with your business plan in the sticks but re-read my post. You both agree you would rather make $100 per hr doing commercial than $150-$200 hr doing residential.
> 
> Might want to check the customer retention stats commercial v residential.


Not sure where your going with that.....I do both. I have gas station, mom and pop stores, a handful of smaller retailers, some medical buildings, a bank, and a private road. Yet My residential makes up for 70% of my business. I'm not touching the bigger stuff just yet because it requires the bigger toys, which means bigger overhead. I would rather do what's going to pay me more for the less movement of my trucks....Period. Less maintenance, less fuel, less work.

Going off topic here....sorta. This kind of reminds me of a meeting I had with AAA a few months back. They come to me & say....hey, we will finance you a couple new trucks, and the equipment to go with it, but you have to take every call in your service area and only get paid $22 a service, doesn't matter if it's a jump, lock out, gas, tow or it's whatever......we won't go any deeper into it, Point is, If I were to go into the public sector, I would get maybe %30 more calls but 50%-60% more expense.

Screw that, you can keep that business plan all day my friend. It's the same thing your saying pretty much.

Quantity = cheap rates.....try again. Might be more in your hand up front.....but not in the long run.


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## murray83 (Dec 3, 2005)

What if a members area is flooded with people doing it for extra cash to help fix up his truck? or a retired man with a truck looking to stay busy and make a few bucks? 

Bring up pricing on this site and it becomes a name calling match,I have a simple business idea if its putting food on my table and clothes on my back and at night I'm happy with the end result (price) I'm content,why start attacking others not in your area? its childish and foolish and no one cares.

You run your business and everyone else will run theirs.

Let the countdown to another banned thread begin..............


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## Bmsnow (Nov 29, 2008)

Per plow???? why not do your homework, bid each of your homes at a seasonal rate and make your money.... it seems to work great for me. Just keep in mind DON'T UNDER BID just to get the work... we are all out to make money and we can all do so if were all on the same page!!!! beat your competition with Quality!!!!!


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

murray83;654806 said:


> What if a members area is flooded with people doing it for extra cash to help fix up his truck? or a retired man with a truck looking to stay busy and make a few bucks?
> 
> Bring up pricing on this site and it becomes a name calling match,I have a simple business idea if its putting food on my table and clothes on my back and at night I'm happy with the end result (price) I'm content,why start attacking others not in your area? its childish and foolish and no one cares.
> 
> ...


Could not agree more, well said.


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## jayman3 (Jan 18, 2006)

:salute:


Neige;654867 said:


> Could not agree more, well said.


I am with you on that Paul because there is always going to be someone who could do it cheaper than me.


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## A Man (Dec 24, 2007)

Neige;654600 said:


> Wow miss 1 day and look what happens. I do both resi and commercial. I make more money with my resi. I only have 2700 drives and we do it with 18 tractors. Thats 150 each, some of my new employees do less and others do more. Single drive is 270 for the season ( around 450 sq ft) and a double is 300 ( around 600 sq ft.). No walkways or salting. Average winter is 200 cm or 80 inches, usually in 18 events, so we hit our clients around 60 times a season.
> All my contracts are prepay. Meaning you pay up front, for new clients who don't know us halve up front the other halve Jan. 1 in a post dated check. This way we don't chase our money, and its 1 letter and a stamp. You only get driveway stakes once we receive payment. My employees are paid a salary for the season. Every 2 weeks they get paid snow or no snow. A tractor run is less than 1 sq mile. Roughly 10 streets with 15 clients each. A tractor costs around $60,000 and the blower around 8,000.00 The tractor is good for 15 years min. and will still have a value of around $15,000. The maintenance will be around 1 grand a year max. Tractor costs around $12 an hr on fuel, average year 120 hrs.
> There is the nuts and bolts of my business. This works for me, you have to know your own numbers, to charge accordingly. But please don't tell me I make no money doing resi.
> If you did the math it comes out to 50 cents a sq ft. on average. I don't come close to that with commercial. Lastly I do all this, in under 15 sq miles. Long live the tractor with an inversed snowblower, a unique Canadian product.tymusic


 Paul, from what I know of your business and your demeanour on this site I have come to really value your advice and opinions. If I understand your numbers right, at an average of 18 events per year and 60 visits to each customer you're servicing your customer more than 3 times per storm? That is an unbeatable level of service, one that even the best commercial contractors would have a hard time keeping up to. With over 2000 customers, how often do you receive phone calls from customer with questions or issues? Good luck this year, looking forward to some more pictures!


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## Bmsnow (Nov 29, 2008)

270 for the season!!! killer price where do I sign up!! Our min is around 535.00. we plow @ 4" with an average of 25 shifts a season..


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

Neige;654600 said:


> Wow miss 1 day and look what happens. I do both resi and commercial. I make more money with my resi. I only have 2700 drives and we do it with 18 tractors. Thats 150 each, some of my new employees do less and others do more. Single drive is 270 for the season ( around 450 sq ft) and a double is 300 ( around 600 sq ft.). No walkways or salting. Average winter is 200 cm or 80 inches, usually in 18 events, so we hit our clients around 60 times a season.
> All my contracts are prepay. Meaning you pay up front, for new clients who don't know us halve up front the other halve Jan. 1 in a post dated check. This way we don't chase our money, and its 1 letter and a stamp. You only get driveway stakes once we receive payment. My employees are paid a salary for the season. Every 2 weeks they get paid snow or no snow. A tractor run is less than 1 sq mile. Roughly 10 streets with 15 clients each. A tractor costs around $60,000 and the blower around 8,000.00 The tractor is good for 15 years min. and will still have a value of around $15,000. The maintenance will be around 1 grand a year max. Tractor costs around $12 an hr on fuel, average year 120 hrs.
> There is the nuts and bolts of my business. This works for me, you have to know your own numbers, to charge accordingly. But please don't tell me I make no money doing resi.
> If you did the math it comes out to 50 cents a sq ft. on average. I don't come close to that with commercial. Lastly I do all this, in under 15 sq miles. Long live the tractor with an inversed snowblower, a unique Canadian product.tymusic


Awesome numbers Paul I have been impressed with your operation since my first day at this site and I am even more now

Good luck this year


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

A Man;654907 said:


> Paul, from what I know of your business and your demeanour on this site I have come to really value your advice and opinions. If I understand your numbers right, at an average of 18 events per year and 60 visits to each customer you're servicing your customer more than 3 times per storm? That is an unbeatable level of service, one that even the best commercial contractors would have a hard time keeping up to. With over 2000 customers, how often do you receive phone calls from customer with questions or issues? Good luck this year, looking forward to some more pictures!


Thanks for those kind words. Yes we have a high level of service. We start with a 2 inch trigger, and we will do a pass every time when the city plows the streets. Its not always a lowballer that can cause you problems. Sometimes you get a new company who charges the same amount, but jumps the gun on the trigger and goes out for 1 inch. You then start gettings calls from your own clients asking why you have not been by, that the competitors service is better. As for the calls I take them from 10 PM to 7 AM, then my wonderful sister in law handles the calls during the day. On major storm days she handles over 500 calls. I have made many changes to our service and payments this year thanks to discussions on here and mostly to the SIMA sympossium where I discussed many ideas with owners face to face. We can learn so much, with honest open discussion.


Bmsnow;654928 said:


> 270 for the season!!! killer price where do I sign up!! Our min is around 535.00. we plow @ 4" with an average of 25 shifts a season..


If I could I would charge those amounts also, just my area would not allow that. Here is the million dollar question, what percentage of that amount is net profit. Mine depending on the snow totals is around 22%, have a 3 year plan to bring that up to 30%



cretebaby;655053 said:


> Awesome numbers Paul I have been impressed with your operation since my first day at this site and I am even more now
> 
> Good luck this year


Thank you, I appreciate it. May we all see green this season.


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## Indy (Sep 23, 2007)

murray83;654806 said:


> What if a members area is flooded with people doing it for extra cash to help fix up his truck? or a retired man with a truck looking to stay busy and make a few bucks?
> 
> Bring up pricing on this site and it becomes a name calling match,I have a simple business idea if its putting food on my table and clothes on my back and at night I'm happy with the end result (price) I'm content,why start attacking others not in your area? its childish and foolish and no one cares.
> 
> ...


Point well taken murry............I re-read my post and while I still think the idea of profit is true.........I do wish I would have worded if different.........so for my part in the "name calling" forgive me.


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## creativedesigns (Sep 24, 2007)

Neige;654617 said:


> Totally agree, I may have to go up to Ottawa for the vids since not much going on in Montreal. Than again it may hit the fan this Monday.
> To clear up another burning question, we charge $40 for a drive by.


Same here $ 40 for drivebys or one time calls ( providing were completed our commercial accounts) I do resis for fun now, since I retired from doing then full time!  Paul, you get 500 calls on a major snow event? ...new clients calling?  :waving:


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## PTSolutions (Dec 8, 2007)

i think im gonna regret posting this...i go through the same ****e explaining on lawnsite that lawncare prices vary soo much by area, but people are soo used to doing something one way they cant comprehend anything else.

17-18 avg PUSHES per season, not events, here we dont use events for resis, maybe the bigger commercials. on 2" triggers for a resi drive is the standard here as well. we are on the mid to high end of pricing for our area.

seasonal contracts vary per drive anywhere from 225-450. again we bid each on a per drive basis, there is too much variation in drives in our area to have a set price.

now that was our personal accounts. we plow for our city's senior discount program, city just acts as a contact between the contractor and client at the beginning of the year for signups, after that the contractor takes over ALL communication and billing etc. with the client. this program provides a set rate of 13 per push or 225 for the season. we have 82 resi drives that can be completed in 4hrs or less with our two trucks, and our third is doing our commercial lots. now, the per push clients are gonna get damn close to breaking even with seasonal so theres no big loss there.


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## Brant'sLawnCare (Jun 29, 2007)

I would charge at least $25 or $30 per drive. That's about my minimum. You should be able to get that much for driveways, no matter how close to each other they are. It just depends on what you need to make for your business. I wouldn't charge $15 for a drive though.


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## kipcom (Feb 3, 2001)

What an ugly topic......Commercial vs. residential

Pick your poison and hope for the best 

At $10 per drive you should be clearing $100 per hour, but consider the part of ...what if you damage a garage door because you were in a "hurry" and went forward instead of reverse !!!! OOOops...there goes the profit for that snow event.


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## speedy (Oct 30, 2004)

I'm sorta new to the business, I have done commercial snow clearing (plowing) and removal with heavy equipment - Loaders, Backhoes Dump trucks. I'm looking at servicing residential with a truck.

When you guys are talking about residential, there seems to be a fair variation in the types of jobs, I think that it can be divided further into urban residential and rural residential. Meaning short driveways with not much space to put the snow and then there's the rural where the drives and entire areas can be longer and quite big, with ample room to pile and windrow the snow off to the side.

I'm looking at a mix of both. The urban stuff would be 25 to 40 feet long leading to a garage, and only a small area of lawn to place the snow. The rural is mini-acreages with 200 foot driveways and an open yard of 4000 to 8000 sq ft, or more. 

The total population of the city? (town) is around 16,000. And snowfall can vary hugely from year to year, so no point in getting too pie-in-the-sky as far as equipment goes,

My dilema is to determine the best equipment to meet the challenge of both, at a reasonable cost. Nobody is doing this typr of stuff with a plow truck, in fact the only plow trucks on town are owned by 2 motels, a car dealership and a service station. A bulk fuel agent has his own skidsteer. the malls are done by contractors with loaders and skidsteers. One contractor has a 5 ton sand truck, and the other a v-box in a one-ton (no plow).

I have a 1/2 ton shortbox, I'm thinking a back plow and a plow on the front. But how to get the snow onto the lawn areas without damaging them? So I've been thinking a wide (48 - 54") ATV-type snowblower, mounted on the passenger's side on the front, with a plow lift frame to raise and lower it. (That would require a little engineering thought.) The blower would put the back-bladed snow on the home-owner's lawn with no damage to the turf. (or sidewalks)


How about a sand/salt spreader mounted up front on the driver's side, as a counterballance and an extra service. If the rear plow is spreader-friendly, maybe it could handle the pickled sand mix and the front spreader pure salt.

For the past week it's been far too cold for salt to be any good at all, so sand is a big thing here. t I definitely see a need for salt at times, and nobody uses it, except the Highways Department, and they aren't wasting the money on it right now.


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## BOSSMAN21 (Dec 11, 2008)

Gicon, I charge 15- 20 $$$ per push and I do fine with my truck it is great on gas and if you are quick and use common sense then you can do well charging prices like these.


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## BOSSMAN21 (Dec 11, 2008)

Also, speedy, I dont know if you should be putting all of that weight on your small 1/2 ton. I have just a 7'6 Boss on my 1/2 ton and it barrows the front end pretty well. JMHO


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## jgoetter1 (Feb 23, 2007)

Very impressive Neige. Thanks for the nuts and bolts.


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## BMWSTUD25 (Aug 21, 2008)

First off let me just say Im so glad I decided to read this thread

Second let me say I too agree that Neige seems to be one of the most honest and respectable individuals on here from the posts I've read, and you seem to have everything together really well. I would be willing to bet the vast majority of guys on here have no idea what they really making a season percentage wise like that and doubt many have 3 year plans.

Pricing is soooooooooooooooooooooooooo different everywhere you go and like others have said about their work mine too is pretty spread out so we have to charge a little more because of the downtime in travel between sites. we have a small town and one of my friends does a ton of drives in the village with his Bobcat. he charges a pretty good price but again he can have two or four done in the time it will take for me to drive between one property and the next. so yes I believe the $15 drive works if they are close together and you are doing a large number and have a reasonable number of plowable events.

and the whole commercial/residential thing I dont think we'll all ever agree on that but I personally make more in a big storm off resi work, problem being though that its the commercial work we service more often and rely on to pay the bills. 

as a side note I have learned so much from this site and peoples post like JD Dave! Neige Grandview and others. So much can be learned by understanding how each of you make your niche work. Some are big commercial operations with only trucks, some only tractors or loaders and some a mix. others are small town guys with one truck or one blower who service many clients with less overhead and still make a living. just because somebody else needs to make 150 and hour for their skid doesnt mean I have to in order to turn a profit and same goes with trucks and blowers, tractors and loaders. you guys all have good ideas and information and the fact that its all different makes me put it under a microscope and try to figure out what bits and pieces of everybodys sucesses will work in my area to allow me to carry less overhead, be more efficient, be able to charge less and in the end still make more than my competition.

Thanks to all! ussmileyflag tymusic


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## Fotch (Dec 28, 2007)

speedy;686240 said:


> I'm sorta new to the business, I have done commercial snow clearing (plowing) and removal with heavy equipment - Loaders, Backhoes Dump trucks. I'm looking at servicing residential with a truck.
> 
> When you guys are talking about residential, there seems to be a fair variation in the types of jobs, I think that it can be divided further into urban residential and rural residential. Meaning short driveways with not much space to put the snow and then there's the rural where the drives and entire areas can be longer and quite big, with ample room to pile and windrow the snow off to the side.
> 
> ...


Whats your town? sounds a lot like mine. I like doing the country residental better than the in-town stuff. There is a lot less traffic, hazzards, and the people don't care as much if you buzz cut thier lawn a little bit. It takes a little bit longer, but pays better too.

I find it difficult to find places to push the snow in the second half of the season in town too. Blowing it onto the lawn would be good, but would require more equipment and more $$.


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## milkie62 (Sep 1, 2003)

I have 60 drives in a townhouse development.$25-30 per drive depending on single or double wide.3 of us running 1332 Ariens snowblowers.We do between 20-25 per hour.No more than 3.5 hrs per run.Do the math.I pay $25/per hr rounded up to $100 for the 3.5hs plus meals.I make around $350-400/hr for the 3-3.5 hrs.Have backup blowers just in case.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Wow, missed a Gicon telling everyone how awesome he is thread. Wonder how that happened. 

Making $1000 per hour all over the country, outplowing anybody and everybody. 

You guys think $15-20 is low? It averages to less than that around here. And those contractors have been doing it for years and years and years and are still in business. 

Gicon, still flying that jet around the country?


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Neige;654600 said:


> Wow miss 1 day and look what happens. I do both resi and commercial. I make more money with my resi. I only have 2700 drives and we do it with 18 tractors. Thats 150 each, some of my new employees do less and others do more. Single drive is 270 for the season ( around 450 sq ft) and a double is 300 ( around 600 sq ft.). No walkways or salting. Average winter is 200 cm or 80 inches, usually in 18 events, so we hit our clients around 60 times a season.
> All my contracts are prepay. Meaning you pay up front, for new clients who don't know us halve up front the other halve Jan. 1 in a post dated check. This way we don't chase our money, and its 1 letter and a stamp. You only get driveway stakes once we receive payment. My employees are paid a salary for the season. Every 2 weeks they get paid snow or no snow. A tractor run is less than 1 sq mile. Roughly 10 streets with 15 clients each. A tractor costs around $60,000 and the blower around 8,000.00 The tractor is good for 15 years min. and will still have a value of around $15,000. The maintenance will be around 1 grand a year max. Tractor costs around $12 an hr on fuel, average year 120 hrs.
> There is the nuts and bolts of my business. This works for me, you have to know your own numbers, to charge accordingly. But please don't tell me I make no money doing resi.
> If you did the math it comes out to 50 cents a sq ft. on average. I don't come close to that with commercial. Lastly I do all this, in under 15 sq miles. Long live the tractor with an inversed snowblower, a unique Canadian product.tymusic


Nope, can't be done, don't believe it, no matter what you say Paul. I believe EVERYTHING Gicon tells me, even if he doesn't think that trucks have oil pans.

Nicely put, I'm sure Greggy won't be back. He seems to disappear when presented with facts.

Still surprised at some of the naysayers, though. Never say never. I'd follow Paul's business model long before Gicon's.

And I'm not saying that just because he's a fellow Dutchman. lol


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## Duramaxsle1 (Jan 22, 2009)

JD Dave;654013 said:


> http://www.pronovost.qc.ca/pxpla.html Not the best vid but it gives you some idea of what I'm talking about.


Hey Dave, any idea the price of this unit? by the way I did res. driveways for twenty years from 1978 until 1998. I charged by the season based on 14 snow falls a year at an average of $220.00 x 160 driveways.....made a killing with one truck and backplow. Now the going rate is $400.00 to $600.00. I agree with you totally!!!!


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## ccounterman (Jan 22, 2009)

I charge $30 to $ 50 per driveway. Very easy to make quick money.


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

Mark Oomkes;726283 said:


> Nope, can't be done, don't believe it, no matter what you say Paul. I believe EVERYTHING Gicon tells me, even if he doesn't think that trucks have oil pans.
> 
> Nicely put, I'm sure Greggy won't be back. He seems to disappear when presented with facts.
> 
> ...


Thanks Mark.tymusicussmileyflag


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## augerandblade (Jan 17, 2009)

ussmileyflagtymusicjust like real estate, prices are dependent on location location location


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## bgingras (Jan 16, 2004)

Mark Oomkes;726283 said:


> Nope, can't be done, don't believe it, no matter what you say Paul. I believe EVERYTHING Gicon tells me, even if he doesn't think that trucks have oil pans.
> 
> Nicely put, I'm sure Greggy won't be back. He seems to disappear when presented with facts.
> 
> ...


Little known facts about Gicon:

Young guy, mid 20's
Lives at home with parents, pays no rent.
Claims to be a building contractor but has no license, registration or insurance.
Carries no insurance for his plowing "business" either.


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## ogdenflooring (Jan 5, 2009)

merrimacmill;653859 said:


> I have a $35 local minimum price. Meaning, I don't have to drive more than 15-20 minutes to get to it. But to me, it just makes no sense to go out and do a driveway for less than that. and I've never been turned down at that price. But it does all depend on your area, and around here there is a lot of money floating around so people dont care as much.


Alot of $$$?????? Sounds like I'm packin up and movin to MA!!!!


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## AndyTblc (Dec 16, 2006)

ogdenflooring;730017 said:


> Alot of $$$?????? Sounds like I'm packin up and movin to MA!!!!


Can we car pool?


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## winged1dur (Feb 12, 2006)

bgingras;729995 said:


> Little known facts about Gicon:
> 
> Young guy, mid 20's
> Lives at home with parents, pays no rent.
> ...


Well, since Gicon has made himself a fire hydrant in a thread full of dogs i might as well take a whiz. You can add "Marketing genius" to his resume after you read this thread.

http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=74352


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## Lencodude (Dec 30, 2008)

It all depends on geographic location and if that area has money or not, cannot say everyone should charge one price across North America. In my area you will not get anyone paying you $40 per push for a driveway all season. I have all seasonal driveways and make a decent living for the winter months. I have a few stragglers calling me at 4 or more inches and I charge the $30 a call, but they will only call 2 or 3 times a season. But they are on my route. I agree with Neige business plan. But in other place with less competiton you might be able to charge more.

If your the only plow guy around you can ask as much the customer will pay. But if there is 10 other guys offering the same service usaully the cheaper one will pervail!

It all boils down to supply and demand for an area!
So there are different business plans for certain areas


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## milkie62 (Sep 1, 2003)

I am in a condo area.I do 60 of the 110 possible drives.I am only small potatoes to some of you.It is just for my mad money.My son and one of his friends help me.I get $25 for a single wide and $30 for the dbl wide drives.We each do 6-7 per hr with snowblowers---933 cub cadets---they blast right through it.So it averages out to 18-20 per hr.I keep one spare blower on the truck for backup.So I am making an easy $400/hr -$450/hr here.I pay them $25/hr each but usually round it up to $100 for the 3-3.5 hrs we are there.So tell me you can't make money snowblowing.Customers are all happy for quick job,help is happy for great pay and I am happy since I can buy more toys.


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## starsandstripes (Jan 26, 2009)

Alright guys heres my question, I have a 97 chevy CK 2500HD with about 200,000 miles on it. Is it worth putting an 8' plow on the truck. I will only be doing about 20 residential driveways this season. Getting sick of using the snowblower!! My only concern is the transmission. The do's and the dont's for saving the tranny. I d hate to sink in 2800.00 into a tranny for a truck thats only worth 2500.00!!


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## BigDave12768 (Nov 17, 2006)

ogdenflooring;730017 said:


> Alot of $$$?????? Sounds like I'm packin up and movin to MA!!!!





AndyTblc;730025 said:


> Can we car pool?


He is not lying that is going rate. And up in Newburyport area people have money. But even at $35 a driveway he probably a bit low. Most homes up there have a long driveway up to a garage. All my driveways are $30 plus and I told 1 guy who had 4 driveways I wouldnt be back. All $30 a pop on 3 houses within a 1/2 mile of each other. Driveways are easy to get around here. just post on Craigslist. The guy with 4 driveways was a referal. But they were small streets and not worth effort the cars were parked on street. So he got done once and then told cya.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

bgingras;729995 said:


> Little known facts about Gicon:
> 
> Young guy, mid 20's
> Lives at home with parents, pays no rent.
> ...


Isn't that interesting.

I knew he was a troll (as well as an idiot) after he lied to me about a truck I almost bought from him.


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

Mark Oomkes;731039 said:


> Isn't that interesting.
> 
> I knew he was a troll (as well as an idiot) after he lied to me about a truck I almost bought from him.


Ouch!  LOL


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## augerandblade (Jan 17, 2009)

starsandstripes;730923 said:


> Alright guys heres my question, I have a 97 chevy CK 2500HD with about 200,000 miles on it. Is it worth putting an 8' plow on the truck. I will only be doing about 20 residential driveways this season. Getting sick of using the snowblower!! My only concern is the transmission. The do's and the dont's for saving the tranny. I d hate to sink in 2800.00 into a tranny for a truck thats only worth 2500.00!!


Welcome to the site I would suggest starting a new thread [or searching]You might get more attention to your questionussmileyflagtymusic


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## t.i.b (Jan 17, 2009)

i allways did $30 for 2-6 inches and $10 bucks for every 2 inches after that. i billed after each storm. to much paper work? im a moron and i could handle it!


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## Ipushsnow (Oct 29, 2007)

Thinking of doing a few resi's next year and so did search on them and came up with this thread. Really kind of left me scratching my head as far as Neige's operation. 

Neige, a few questions if you don't mind:

You said 2700 driveways at $300 per year each, you plow them 60 times per year. That comes out to $5.00 per push. Is that right?

And the phone calls. WOW, 500 with a major storm? WTF??? Thats almost 20% of your customers. Are they all complaints and "when are you going to get here?" calls?

But, 2700x300=$810,000 income per year and 22% net profit is $180,000 per year. Not a bad living, even with 500 calls per storm!


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## SuperdutyShane (Mar 6, 2009)

AndyTblc;730025 said:


> Can we car pool?


You can both stay in Michigan and leave the money for us New England guys


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## sp6x6 (Jan 14, 2009)

I struggled through this whole thread and all I CAN SAY IS WHY cant you get one of those inverted BLOWERS for a skid steer, THOSE are sweet. My next blower is going to have a hydraulic pull back, inverted "thingamagiggy"


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## Kramer (Nov 13, 2004)

big acres;653966 said:


> Enough guys... what I want to know is how any of those who actually do nothing but driveways at $15 a pop make a living at it. A first class stamp to mail the invoice is 2.8% of your gross revenue! If you do have amazing route density... like someone with 400 drives OR you use them as filler between your commercisl stuff, then great. But really... one guy, one truck, $15 per drive -how much do you gross per snowfall?


Personally, I send invoices by email. I save the cost of postage.

I find it difficult to make decent cash at less than $30/drive. I average between $32-$45 per drive in a relatively small area, and do take extra time to do a good job for my customers. I could do more work but the quality would suffer. At $15 per drive I would be inclined to do a quicker job--probably of less quality.

I imagine at $15 per drive in a tight route you could do 10 drives/hr so $150/hr would be gross. Around my area, if you did drives for $15 you wouldn't be likely to lose customers to other low ballers. There are a lot of guys who do a crappy job for $45/drive though.


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## Bmsnow (Nov 29, 2008)

If I could I would charge those amounts also, just my area would not allow that. Here is the million dollar question, what percentage of that amount is net profit. Mine depending on the snow totals is around 22%, have a 3 year plan to bring that up to 30%


My net is around 40%, but i can handle over 200 accounts with two tractors no problem 12 hours tops with 2 feet of snow. 4inches of snow done in 4 hours........


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## JayD2 (Sep 3, 2009)

What an awesome thread!!!!! Thanks!


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

Ipushsnow;771607 said:


> Thinking of doing a few resi's next year and so did search on them and came up with this thread. Really kind of left me scratching my head as far as Neige's operation.
> 
> Neige, a few questions if you don't mind:
> 
> ...


Sorry Ipushsnow, I missed that question from last year. Yes all of the above is real, as for the calls there were lots of new clients and lots of can you do my drive this one time calls. Last year the most our secretary had to handle was 75 in one storm. Of those there may have been 20 that were genuine complaints.


JayD2;1076434 said:


> What an awesome thread!!!!! Thanks!


Thanks Bmsnow & JayD2 for bring up this thread. Man do I miss Mark Os comments.


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## milkie62 (Sep 1, 2003)

*My residential route*

I switched from a truck to the 33" cub cadet snowblowers.When I bought my new truck it was my 1st extended cab.With the 8 foot box and the 8.5 foot fisher plow ,I could not make the turns anymore into the tight drives of my townhouse complex.I switched over to the snowblowers and 3 of us can do 6-7 per hr including the sidewalks and steps.My prices are $25 for the single wides and $30 for the dbl wides which really are not double wide.Just alot of shear pins now and an occsasional belt.So I now gross from $ 125-210/hr per man.There are 3 of us doing 60 houses all in line on 3 streets.I pay my guys half of what they do but if there are any complaints or missed drives they understand they go back and do not get paid.It works out great for me and I make a minimum of $70/hr from each guy for a total of $140/hr.We use about 5 gallons of gas for all of these per push because I take a 6 gallon gas can with me and we never use it all.I am only a part-timer so this works for me and helps pay for my winter snowmobiling.The association has kept me around since 1989 so I guess I must be doing a decent job.


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## JayD2 (Sep 3, 2009)

milkie62;1076604 said:


> I switched from a truck to the 33" cub cadet snowblowers.When I bought my new truck it was my 1st extended cab.With the 8 foot box and the 8.5 foot fisher plow ,I could not make the turns anymore into the tight drives of my townhouse complex.I switched over to the snowblowers and 3 of us can do 6-7 per hr including the sidewalks and steps.My prices are $25 for the single wides and $30 for the dbl wides which really are not double wide.Just alot of shear pins now and an occsasional belt.So I now gross from $ 125-210/hr per man.There are 3 of us doing 60 houses all in line on 3 streets.I pay my guys half of what they do but if there are any complaints or missed drives they understand they go back and do not get paid.It works out great for me and I make a minimum of $70/hr from each guy for a total of $140/hr.We use about 5 gallons of gas for all of these per push because I take a 6 gallon gas can with me and we never use it all.I am only a part-timer so this works for me and helps pay for my winter snowmobiling.The association has kept me around since 1989 so I guess I must be doing a decent job.


Not bad....Just what makes the shear pins break so much anyway?


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## milkie62 (Sep 1, 2003)

Some of the driveways have a city water pipe shutoff that sticks up on some more than others.The auger will catch it and try to move the snowblower to the side shearing the pin.I use 1/4-20 grade 2 bolts instead of the std shear pins.Only cost about 11 cents each vs the manufacturer pin which costs almost 2 dollars.Plus the bolt is a bit softer so there is no chance of damage.I had sheared the pin in the auger housing once because the shear pin that was suppose to shear did not.That is another reason I switched to the grade 2 bolts.


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## JayD2 (Sep 3, 2009)

milkie62;1076741 said:


> Some of the driveways have a city water pipe shutoff that sticks up on some more than others.The auger will catch it and try to move the snowblower to the side shearing the pin.I use 1/4-20 grade 2 bolts instead of the std shear pins.Only cost about 11 cents each vs the manufacturer pin which costs almost 2 dollars.Plus the bolt is a bit softer so there is no chance of damage.I had sheared the pin in the auger housing once because the shear pin that was suppose to shear did not.That is another reason I switched to the grade 2 bolts.


I think that's what my dealer told when I bought it, just to use cheap regular bolts and not to spend more money on the factory pins.

I have not sheard a pin yet but while we're talking about it, once you do shear one out on the job, there is no reason you cant just change it out there right? Or will you need to take it back home mess with it?


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

JayD2;1076752 said:


> I think that's what my dealer told when I bought it, just to use cheap regular bolts and not to spend more money on the factory pins.
> 
> I have not sheard a pin yet but while we're talking about it, once you do shear one out on the job, there is no reason you cant just change it out there right? Or will you need to take it back home mess with it?


Yep you can change them on the spot.


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## milkie62 (Sep 1, 2003)

I use nylon locknuts also.We each carry a magnetic flashlight and 2 7/16 combination wrenches and 6 bolts and maybe 10 nuts since when you drop one you usually do not find it in the snow.Yes they are easy to change on the spot.Another best item is the Cabelas goretex leather work gloves.Even after 3 or 4 hrs ina storm your hands are still warm and dry.People can laugh at me and my system but it works for us and puts money in my pocket.


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## JayD2 (Sep 3, 2009)

milkie62;1077609 said:


> I use nylon locknuts also.We each carry a magnetic flashlight and 2 7/16 combination wrenches and 6 bolts and maybe 10 nuts since when you drop one you usually do not find it in the snow.Yes they are easy to change on the spot.Another best item is the Cabelas goretex leather work gloves.Even after 3 or 4 hrs ina storm your hands are still warm and dry.People can laugh at me and my system but it works for us and puts money in my pocket.


I'm not laughing at you, I'm thanking you.....Thanks man....That's some good info there.I printed your post so I won't forget to do it. It's on my "To Do" List clip board....

We don't have the Cabela here, we almost did but they pulled the plug when the hard times started to roll in.....They had been already moving dirt on this site when they stopped work.


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## milkie62 (Sep 1, 2003)

Same here on the Cabelas.We had a beautiful huge empty horse farm right next to the Interstate ,right at the exit no less.Absolutely no extra traffic because of the location and an easy access to Canada and Vermont.Could be no better spot.But the town voted it down.


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