# Magic Salt and my dealer



## jvm81 (Jan 4, 2005)

A: I am experimenting on a few lots with magic. Thus far its ok but I still like my sand salt mix but magic doesn't track in as bad.

B. Magic is expensive in comparison

C. My dealer is meeting with the DOT today and tomorrow to get a contract with the DOT down at the capital blding. I can't beleive you just walk in and get a meeting to sell the DOT magic - heck I figure if they want they go direct.

D. Maybe I am totally missing something here with magic? Being there out of town I am doing a few lots for them tomorrow but I just don't see the magic.


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## tuney443 (Jun 25, 2006)

I use Magic now exclusively.I really have no idea what you're really asking here.I love the stuff and so do my commercial clients.An hour after I remove the last snow flake,my lots are wet and mostly black.


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## jvm81 (Jan 4, 2005)

Just saying I cant beleive this guy is getting towns, city's, and workiing with DOT to use this stuff. I did spread some again today and by noon they were wet and then we got a good dusting and it collected everywhere else but on my lots. This magic salt may have something here.


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## tuney443 (Jun 25, 2006)

jvm81;1197265 said:


> Just saying I cant beleive this guy is getting towns, city's, and workiing with DOT to use this stuff. I did spread some again today and by noon they were wet and then we got a good dusting and it collected everywhere else but on my lots. This magic salt may have something here.


In NY, many towns use Magic salt,sometimes just the brine.I don't know why it's hard to believe,Magic's been around for like 10 years now.That is the lingering,residual effect you're witnessing regarding the dusting just melting off.


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## Digger63 (Dec 16, 2010)

*Look at the Specs*

As with anything with the towns and the state you still have to bid for things. The state will bid out thier lots with deicing with either an organic compound or some sort of enhancer for the salt. International salt treats with Ice be gone which is the same as magic, just a different trademark name. Cargill treats with Clearlane. Both companies bid on the NYS salt bid per year. If you look it up on the OGS web site you can see who wins what and which town buys from who. Treated salt isn't a big demand for the most of the state depts since they have both the equipment for prewetting and anti-icing availible to them. Most of your towns are the same way. Calcium chloride is still used as the mainstay for both. The Thruway has switch to the beet juice for anti-icng. the last bid they had asked for it and they awarded it to Road solutions.


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## tuney443 (Jun 25, 2006)

Welcome to the site there Digger,I see you're a fellow Dutchess guy--where abouts? I'm based in Poughkeepsie.


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## Juice Induced (Jun 29, 2010)

*MAGIC SALT vs. BEET JUICE*

When comparing one organic de-icer to another, the most important thing to consider is the level of carbohydrates and solids content. Magic Salt is a very good product! The fact of the matter is GEOMELT 55 is better. Just take a look at the carbohydrate and solids levels of each de-icer and you'll see why. All ice melt capacity data and/or scientific research data clearly proves this point. Lower carbs and solids equal lower ice melt capacity and less residual and anti-bonding effect.

Just to be clear, I'm talking about the base organic product. If you mix GEOMELT 55 with the same chloride as Magic Salt, and at the same ratio, GEOMELT will outperform Magic Salt every single time. The base organic in Magic Salt is Brewers Condensed Soluble (BCS) or Distillers Condensed Soluble (DCS). A simple search on the internet will tell you that the carbohydrate level of BCS or DCS is anywhere between 10% and 15% depending on the brewer or distiller source. I've never seen a beet juice co-product carbohydrate content below 16%. Our local GEOMELT distributor claims that their carbohydrate content is over 20%. Many if not all, states that bid beet juice require that the carbohydrate level exceed 20%.

Any DOT that is thinking about using Magic may want it because Magic is pre-blended with MgCl2. Some agencies don't want anything to do with self-blending. Our local GEOMELT distributor has a product called BEET HEET Concentrate which contains GEOMELT and natural CaCl2. Their YouTube video shows that it melts as much ice as 32% calcium chloride. Agencies that want to blend an organic de-icer with their sodium chloride brine to save money would be much better off using BEET HEET Concentrate. Cities and DOT's in Indiana and Ohio are buying BEET HEET Concentrate for less than $1.12 per delivered gallon and blending it with their $0.10 per gallon NaCl to make a really effective de-icer that costs less than CaCl2.


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## Harold Finch (Jan 1, 2011)

*Magic dealer info*

Hello,

I am an authorized Magic dealer located in NJ. Magic holds a patten on their product.. They are the only supplier that can use distillers condensed solids(other knock-offs like you were talking about can only use brewers condensed solids, which do not perform like dcs) No one can buy from Magic directly, only dealers. Even the gov must go through an authorized magic dealer. Let me know if you need any other info.

HF


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## tuney443 (Jun 25, 2006)

Now that this thread has been hijacked like so many here,now regarding another product Geomelt-beet juice,or whatever else you want to call it,I completely endorse Magic to being far superior.You can put as much spin with numbers and such on it there juice induced,but by me[at least regarding last Winter,as the former dealer went to something else this season],you would see that lots done with Geo took longer to de-ice than those with Magic.Let's also not forget how that stuff stains your hands and clothes.


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## Harold Finch (Jan 1, 2011)

10 4 tuney


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## NW Snow Removal (Oct 12, 2007)

we tried magic salt 2 years ago. we took a whole tanker full 4800 gallons. apparently got a contaminated shipment as our liquid would start to freeze at about 10 degrees. We had 40 v-boxes freeze up after plowing for an hour in 5 degree weather in late december of 08. In January 09, We sent a sample back to our dealer in barrington, IL, who confirmed it was bad, and they sent a sample back to their dealer in new york. It took until late march of 09, but they confirmed it was bad and that they would reimburse us, either by another load, or our money back. Well, since the winter was over and we had such a bad experience with the product we asked for our money back. 

Well, since we had used about 2000 gallons of the contaminated(not-working) magic salt, our dealer said that we would only get a partial refund. At this point I just wanted to get past this bad experiment with liquid(25k invested), and get back something, I said ok, fine. I get them to sign a letter of intent to repay us and we go forth. By the middle of summer 09 no payments had been received. So, At the SIMA show in kentucky, I track down the owner of the dealer from barrington and walk with him to the booth of the magic dealer from new york. We all come to an understanding that I will get money back and we go forth. I am expecting payment soon. Checks trickle in for about 6 months totaling only half of what we agreed to. My dealer says they have no money until next winter as they took a load of liquid from the dealer not cash back, and they need to wait til next winter to generate revenue to pay us. So, spring 2010 we get a collections agent to go after them and it doesn't faze them. Talk to dealer from new york again at SIMA in 2010 and they told me they gave my dealer a full shipment for free in 09. My dealer still says they'll pay ASAP, but they just keep delaying our money back until they generate more liquid revenue. 

I am ticked because I know they got a full load in return for free and I am only getting a credit of about 60% of my purchase. And it is taking forever to get my last 30% they owe me..


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## Harold Finch (Jan 1, 2011)

NW, sounds like you need a new dealer.. Any good ones other than that guy in your area?


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## Digger63 (Dec 16, 2010)

*To each his own ( Part 1 of 2)*

Didn't mean to start a war here, just brought up things that anyone can look up. I've used three products and had results both similar and expected depending on the composition of the products. Each have thier plus and minises. 
One end of the spectrom is a product like clearlane, salt treated with mag chloride with an inhibiter added to counteract to harshness of the corrosion. the residual effect i found is low. Similar to the agencies that use calcium chloride as a prewet for salting. This combo is very fast at very low tempertures. downside of this is the refreeze once a certain dissolution is reached.Didn't mix this myself because it is sold a completed product.But the product works.
The other end that I have found is IceBite, sugerbeet derived product. Sugerbeet byproduct particles hold very well in suspenstion. you can look up weight per gallon and specfic gravity to see this. Also the application ratio is 6 gallons per ton of salt to achieve 
the lower tempertures. As with other organic deicers it is commonly mixed with mag chloride to accelerate the melting process. Because of the high particles per gallon there is a very high residue and which is also the organic end which lowers the corrosion rate considerable. This product isn't as fast as straight calcium or straight mag, but if your looking for the residue effect very high and low application per ton to achieve this. But the Product works.
Please see part 2( and give me some time to type)


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## Digger63 (Dec 16, 2010)

*to each his own ( part 2 of 2)*

Now another product everyone here knows is magic, For treating salt one of the first performers. A well advertised product, I 've used this product and mixed with it. As with any product look at the weight per gallon and the specfic gravity. I'm guessing that it is potatoe based since most of the distillories for vodka, whiskey etc. are made from potatoes. I've tried to look it up and never could get a specfic answer of what it really is made of or where it comes from. For the lower temps the rate is 8 gallons per ton. This product is also mixed with mag chloride. the organics also reduce the corrosion rate. Of the three this one comes somewhere in between with it being closer to the residule end more so than the mag end. With 8 gallons per ton to produce a residual effect I would imagine also brings in a higher mag rate making a faster burn rate. The product works.
As with both organic products, if you get a high enough concentration ( pure liquid) on you, yes it will stain. 
In New York, two different companies state bid the whole state for treated salt, different trade names, but both names on MSDS sheet. Any government agency or schools are allowed to buy from this pricing look up NYSOGS for the pricing in New York


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## Harold Finch (Jan 1, 2011)

*Where magic comes from*

It is not "potato" based however potatoes _may_ be involved in the initial distillation process. During the process distillers condensed solids are a by-product, these are what make up most of magic-o(the rest which I believe to be less than 10% is MgCl). The actual dcs come on boat from Germany and other over seas countries that have big distillation plants. One of the main reasons it costs so much is the journey it takes... when we get distillers in the states involved I expect price to come down and make it an even more cost savings product.


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## Digger63 (Dec 16, 2010)

*still a little confused*

The msds sheet that i saw ( ice be gone ) which included magic o had a mix of 50% mag and 50% distillers condensed solids. Doing it the simple way of 8 gallons per ton you would have 4 gallons mag and 4 gallons distillers condensed solids per ton. Beer is somewhat consistent that it is derived from wheat,barley,and hops. if a mix said brewers condensed solids i would assume these are the base ingredents that make up the mix. All distilling processes start with a base product of some kind. Many different products are made by distilling ( gin,scotch,whiskey, vodka, even vinigar) but they all start with something to be distilled from ( ie.. potatoe ) . So at this point, i can assume it is not from this country ( imported) and the words "distillers condensed solids" doesn't really tell me a whole lot about whats in it.


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## hlntoiz (Jan 13, 2009)

Digger63;1199025 said:


> The msds sheet that i saw ( ice be gone ) which included magic o had a mix of 50% mag and 50% distillers condensed solids. Doing it the simple way of 8 gallons per ton you would have 4 gallons mag and 4 gallons distillers condensed solids per ton. Beer is somewhat consistent that it is derived from wheat,barley,and hops. if a mix said brewers condensed solids i would assume these are the base ingredents that make up the mix. All distilling processes start with a base product of some kind. Many different products are made by distilling ( gin,scotch,whiskey, vodka, even vinigar) but they all start with something to be distilled from ( ie.. potatoe ) . So at this point, i can assume it is not from this country ( imported) and the words "distillers condensed solids" doesn't really tell me a whole lot about whats in it.


Ice-B-Gone is Magic-0. Ice-B-gone II or any other variations is Iceban. All produced by Sears Petroleum. Ice-B-Gone is what is sold to municipalities. Magic is sold to the private sector. That is how the contract works.


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## Harold Finch (Jan 1, 2011)

Nope.. Sears sold out a bit ago.


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## Harold Finch (Jan 1, 2011)

But yes Ice be Gone is similar product, same patten owned by sears


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## hlntoiz (Jan 13, 2009)

Harold Finch;1199089 said:


> But yes Ice be Gone is similar product, same patten owned by sears


Is this the same Harold I know from the other site?


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## billet-boy (Dec 31, 2007)

NW Snow Removal;1198341 said:


> we tried magic salt 2 years ago. we took a whole tanker full 4800 gallons. apparently got a contaminated shipment as our liquid would start to freeze at about 10 degrees. We had 40 v-boxes freeze up after plowing for an hour in 5 degree weather in late december of 08. In January 09, We sent a sample back to our dealer in barrington, IL, who confirmed it was bad, and they sent a sample back to their dealer in new york. It took until late march of 09, but they confirmed it was bad and that they would reimburse us, either by another load, or our money back. Well, since the winter was over and we had such a bad experience with the product we asked for our money back.
> 
> Well, since we had used about 2000 gallons of the contaminated(not-working) magic salt, our dealer said that we would only get a partial refund. At this point I just wanted to get past this bad experiment with liquid(25k invested), and get back something, I said ok, fine. I get them to sign a letter of intent to repay us and we go forth. By the middle of summer 09 no payments had been received. So, At the SIMA show in kentucky, I track down the owner of the dealer from barrington and walk with him to the booth of the magic dealer from new york. We all come to an understanding that I will get money back and we go forth. I am expecting payment soon. Checks trickle in for about 6 months totaling only half of what we agreed to. My dealer says they have no money until next winter as they took a load of liquid from the dealer not cash back, and they need to wait til next winter to generate revenue to pay us. So, spring 2010 we get a collections agent to go after them and it doesn't faze them. Talk to dealer from new york again at SIMA in 2010 and they told me they gave my dealer a full shipment for free in 09. My dealer still says they'll pay ASAP, but they just keep delaying our money back until they generate more liquid revenue.
> 
> I am ticked because I know they got a full load in return for free and I am only getting a credit of about 60% of my purchase. And it is taking forever to get my last 30% they owe me..


Magic kinda looks like a low dollar outfit to me, with press like this they are going to be hurting.


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## tuney443 (Jun 25, 2006)

billet-boy;1199250 said:


> Magic kinda looks like a low dollar outfit to me, with press like this they are going to be hurting.


So by your analogy,if your Chevy dealer was known as a rip-off sleazebag dealer,then you wouldn't buy a Chevy,right????????Trust me,Magic suppliers and dealers aren't hurting as they have a very superior product.There's bad apples in every orchard billet boy.


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## Harold Finch (Jan 1, 2011)

What other site? If its a winter maintenance site i am only on this one.


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## billet-boy (Dec 31, 2007)

tuney443;1199298 said:


> So by your analogy,if your Chevy dealer was known as a rip-off sleazebag dealer,then you wouldn't buy a Chevy,right????????Trust me,Magic suppliers and dealers aren't hurting as they have a very superior product.There's bad apples in every orchard billet boy.


" At the SIMA show in kentucky, I track down the owner of the dealer from barrington and walk with him to the booth of the magic dealer from new york. We all come to an understanding that I will get money back and we go forth." That's two "sleazebag dealers"
Or "bad apples" kinda fishy. I'm sure Magic may be a superior product but when a deal is made honor it, that's all I'm saying.


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## tuney443 (Jun 25, 2006)

billet-boy;1200050 said:


> " At the SIMA show in kentucky, I track down the owner of the dealer from barrington and walk with him to the booth of the magic dealer from new york. We all come to an understanding that I will get money back and we go forth." That's two "sleazebag dealers"
> Or "bad apples" kinda fishy. I'm sure Magic may be a superior product but when a deal is made honor it, that's all I'm saying.


That's fine,agreed,but when you say ''Magic kinda looks like a low dollar outfit to me.'' You are now dissing possibly anything and anybody that has anything to do with Magic and that's just wrong.You can't make a statement like that without substantial proof that the whole Magic organization starting at the top of the ladder down to it's dealers uses unethical business practices.


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## Pirate52 (Jan 17, 2011)

*not what i was told*

Used magic but was told it was made in Albany, now you say it's not an American product. What foreign countries are we making rich now? And what is it made of? The wording distillers condensed solids is like saying sauce could be made out of tomatoes,apples,or chocolate. not that any of those are bad but nice to know in advance what your're putting it on. Where is the beet stuff made? Do any of the dealers of deicers out there know anything about what they're selling or just reading out of a printed piece of paper the people who sell to them give them???


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## Harold Finch (Jan 1, 2011)

BIllet boy- can you give me their name and numbers? I will try to help.

Pirate, DCS overseas, MgCl mostly canada and states blended here


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## hlntoiz (Jan 13, 2009)

Harold Finch;1199460 said:


> What other site? If its a winter maintenance site i am only on this one.


DSXXX?


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## billet-boy (Dec 31, 2007)

Harold Finch;1200302 said:


> BIllet boy- can you give me their name and numbers? I will try to help.
> 
> Pirate, DCS overseas, MgCl mostly canada and states blended here


Contact NW Snow Removal his post is what got me in this, thanks if you can help.


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## Pirate52 (Jan 17, 2011)

*Best kept secret???*

For the way these dealers talk of thier product out there it would be nice if they would step up to the plate and be honest about whats in thier products and where they come from. Where does the beet stuff come from? where does the magic come from?? One guy said it comes from overseas, well that really narrows it down, another says select distilleries, well if there so select and special say what they are. Even Hershey's chocolate is honest enough to tell you where they get thier ingredients and what the are. Also does International salt sell the same treated salt stuff in thier bags at Home Depot. One guy here said Ice be gone is the same as magic and thats what International sell in bulk and bags How about we hear from the beet guys and the magic guys?? What are you not trying to tell everybody??.


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## Harold Finch (Jan 1, 2011)

Magic is a far superior product when compared to the others you have mentioned or any others for that matter.. If you want to use it, we are here to help you.


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## Juice Induced (Jun 29, 2010)

*MAGIC SALT vs. BEET JUICE*

Again, when comparing one organic de-icer to another, the most important thing to consider is the level of carbohydrates and solids content. Take a look at the carbohydrate and solids levels of each de-icer and you'll see why GEOMELT is better. All ice melt capacity data and/or scientific research data clearly proves this point. Lower carbs and solids equal lower ice melt capacity and less residual and anti-bonding effect.

*If you mix GEOMELT 55 with MgCa2 at the same ratio as Magic, GEOMELT will outperform Magic every single time, no if ands or buts.* It's all about the cabohydrates and solids. Distillers Condensed Soluble (DCS) contains between 10% and 15% carbs. GEOMELT contains at least 20%. No spin here. Just the facts. I'll put this BEET HEET de-icer that I get here in Indiana up against Magic any day of the week. BEET HEET is cheaper and it's made here in the USA.


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## Harold Finch (Jan 1, 2011)

*If interested simply do a field test of your own*



Juice Induced;1201938 said:


> Again, when comparing one organic de-icer to another, the most important thing to consider is the level of carbohydrates and solids content. Take a look at the carbohydrate and solids levels of each de-icer and you'll see why GEOMELT is better. All ice melt capacity data and/or scientific research data clearly proves this point. Lower carbs and solids equal lower ice melt capacity and less residual and anti-bonding effect.
> 
> *If you mix GEOMELT 55 with MgCa2 at the same ratio as Magic, GEOMELT will outperform Magic every single time, no if ands or buts.* It's all about the cabohydrates and solids. Distillers Condensed Soluble (DCS) contains between 10% and 15% carbs. GEOMELT contains at least 20%. No spin here. Just the facts. I'll put this BEET HEET de-icer that I get here in Indiana up against Magic any day of the week. BEET HEET is cheaper and it's made here in the USA.


You are comparing apples to oranges.. different active agents, different chemistry when mixed with NaCl. Go ahead and do a field test (make sure your treated at proper rates for each).. anyone. Magic will out perform.


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## Westhardt Corp. (Dec 13, 2009)

A few things to mention here. Magic-0/Ice B'Gone is made by Sears Petroleum, now known as Sears Ecological Applications Co, LLC in Rome, NY. (as of 1-10, please correct, Harold). Ice Ban is made by Earth Friendly Chemicals, Inc. in Virgina Beach. Not the same.

IMHO, Magic is expensive because people will pay for it. Same thing as Prop 49, except that I don't know of anyone whose ever actually _seen_ P-49, let alone used it. (let this be a lesson, the best product in the universe doesn't mean squat if you're an arrogant jagoff to well, _all_ of your potential customers) The folks I know who have used Magic (and others) have not bashed its performance, but simply stated it doesn't work so much better (if any, really) than their other options as to justify the significantly higher price.

Also, Geomelt is something to pay attention to, and IMHO its main selling point is not to compete with the likes of any of the commercially available MgCl based liquids. Not to say it can or cannot, but I do know that IL _specifically_ states liquid deicer that it cannot contain MgCl in any way. They casually refer to that liquid as "Liquid Corn Salt" or LCS. They do bid for CaCl now, but no Mag at all. It's a trend I think we'll see more of down the road, and last I checked Geo is considerably less costly than Cal to the average contractor. (again, feel free to correct me, anyone--I haven't done any serious liquid research in a year or so)

Hi Denver!


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## Harold Finch (Jan 1, 2011)

Westhardt Corp.;1202095 said:


> A few things to mention here. Magic-0/Ice B'Gone is made by Sears Petroleum, now known as Sears Ecological Applications Co, LLC in Rome, NY. (as of 1-10, please correct, Harold). Ice Ban is made by Earth Friendly Chemicals, Inc. in Virgina Beach. Not the same.
> 
> IMHO, Magic is expensive because people will pay for it. Same thing as Prop 49, except that I don't know of anyone whose ever actually _seen_ P-49, let alone used it. (let this be a lesson, the best product in the universe doesn't mean squat if you're an arrogant jagoff to well, _all_ of your potential customers) The folks I know who have used Magic (and others) have not bashed its performance, but simply stated it doesn't work so much better (if any, really) than their other options as to justify the significantly higher price.
> 
> ...


Correct me how? I agreed with what you are saying other than I do not believe that sears sells product out of Rome NY anymore. They still do, and will probably for a long time, hold the patten.


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## Westhardt Corp. (Dec 13, 2009)

Sorry--I see where you got that from. I forgot a key word...."me". As is "as of 1-10, please correct *me*, Harold". My mistake. I was just going off the most recent MSDS I have on file.

And there is usually a ten-year life span of a _patent_, but I'm not a patent attorney, so I don't know for sure about that.


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## Digger63 (Dec 16, 2010)

*Don't shoot the messenger*

Well since the subject of a special patent was brought up I looked it. I'm guessing that the number is 4,676,918. Found it on a magic web site. From there I went to the US patent office and looked it up (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...=1&p=2&S1=4,676,918&OS=4,676,918&RS=4,676,918). This was given in 1986 and related to using waste products from distilling alchol for deicing. If you have time read it, it gives different examples and mixes. Not to be a killjoy in this thread but US patents are only limited to twenty years before they become public. Meaning the patent holder only has exclusive rights for twenty years before anyone can make or sell a similer product without infringing upon the patent holder's rights. Sorry to tick people off here but 4,676,918 ran out 5 years ago.


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## Pirate52 (Jan 17, 2011)

*No Spin Zone ???*

Gotta love this site. I understand there is going to be some attachment to the product you sell. But I would hope there would be some knowledge and truthfullness about it also. In my last reply I mentioned three products, with two of them being *exactly* the same. There must be a science behind deicing, and I'll admit that I didn't receive any master's degrees in my education. But I started when Sand and Salt was the only deicer around. Explain to me the science behind your deicer. If I ask questions about where it's made and what exactly is in it don't give the same stuff i can read on the pamplet. I'm asking because it's not on the pamplet. If I ask a Cat or JD dealer a question and they don't know...they find out. Mr Finch, I'll give you credit, you are the only one to admit your product's basics are not from this country. But to say " It is not "potato" based however potatoes may be involved in the initial distillation process" sounds like you really don't know what ingredents make up the product and the science that makes it work. But then you say "You are comparing apples to oranges.. different active agents, different chemistry when mixed with NaCl" like you do know. Can you explain or is this something out of the dealers handbook to respond when asked questions. Also please respond about the patent thing the last guy said


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## Westhardt Corp. (Dec 13, 2009)

You just insinuated that someone should disclose exactly what's in a deicing product?

:laughing:


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## Joseph.Lawns (Jan 19, 2011)

*Snow Plowing By the square foot*

Guys, I have a problem I haven't encountered before. I am working on a government contract for landscaping and snow removal. The problem is the government is not allowing the contractors bidding on the contract to measure the grounds. They are just supplying us a list of the overall Square yardage per area. Roads/Parking lots/airlfields/ everything. I've never bid a snow job by the square yard. The only thing I can think to do is break it down to sq ft. BUT? The numbers I keep working and re-working just seem odd to me. Maybe cause they are not my numbers? I don't know. Any advice?


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## Westhardt Corp. (Dec 13, 2009)

You have another problem...you posted a new topic in an existing thread.

Short version? Make a new thread for this, in the Commercial Snow Removal forum. And, IMHO--walk away from this bid. It reeks of problems already.


But seriously, make a new thread in the correct forum--you'll have much better results that way.


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## Digger63 (Dec 16, 2010)

*Sugar Beet info*

Pirate52:
message me and I'll try to answer your questions about the sugar beet part of your inquiry. I'm not that far from you.


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## Pirate52 (Jan 17, 2011)

*Thin Ice ??*

hard to believe when you start to ask questions on a forum and start to ask more questions that the whole thing falls through the ice and dies. For just wanting truthful and honest infomation about a product from a dealer there are only three possibilities that come to mind.
1. The dealer really doesn't know about the product
2. The dealer knows but won't tell you the truth about it
3. The dealer was told not to say anything about it
Granted, these reasons are commonly used in Washington DC with elected officials all the time when asked direct questions.


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## tuney443 (Jun 25, 2006)

Pirate52;1209439 said:


> hard to believe when you start to ask questions on a forum and start to ask more questions that the whole thing falls through the ice and dies. For just wanting truthful and honest infomation about a product from a dealer there are only three possibilities that come to mind.
> 1. The dealer really doesn't know about the product
> 2. The dealer knows but won't tell you the truth about it
> 3. The dealer was told not to say anything about it
> Granted, these reasons are commonly used in Washington DC with elected officials all the time when asked direct questions.


Ummmm,not quite there Pirate.#4 could be he's simply out of town or not able to access a PC.#5 could be he's getting tired of your rantings and simply doesn't want to converse with you anymore.#6 could be he's actually answered most of your questions already,correctly I might add and again,he doesn't like redundancy. #7 could very possibly be that you are a competitor of Magic,simply trolling to see if Harold mis-speaks on his product and/or to dis-credit him.He has not and you won't.


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## Harold Finch (Jan 1, 2011)

haha,10 4 again tuney.. sometimes enough is enough


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## Pirate52 (Jan 17, 2011)

*Straight answer*

Ok Tuney443, he did answer one question about where it comes from, I'll grant you that. But when you read the other responses on this thread from Juiced Induced, Westhardt corp,Digger 63 and Hlntoiz it seems they bring up valid points on how deicers really work. In using magic myself I'll tell you that it works. But I would like to know why and some sort of answer of what it's based on. When the Ford dealer says his motor and transmisson will do this and I ask how does that compare to the Chevy I expect an answer and the paperwork to back up that answer. I don't mean harsh on anyone but back it up with something. If the carbs, the solids and the mag aren't what make a great deicer, then show it. I'm sorry if I don't have faith in most salemen, I've known too many that moved to another dealership/product and suddenly the stuff they used to sell which they said was the best, is now second to the stuff they sell now . Like I said I asked questions based on the respones of others and looking up what they said and asking for respones for others who should know the real deal. Also I have harsh view towards politicians.


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## Harold Finch (Jan 1, 2011)

Pirate52;1210134 said:


> Ok Tuney443, he did answer one question about where it comes from, I'll grant you that. But when you read the other responses on this thread from Juiced Induced, Westhardt corp,Digger 63 and Hlntoiz it seems they bring up valid points on how deicers really work. In using magic myself I'll tell you that it works. But I would like to know why and some sort of answer of what it's based on. When the Ford dealer says his motor and transmisson will do this and I ask how does that compare to the Chevy I expect an answer and the paperwork to back up that answer. I don't mean harsh on anyone but back it up with something. If the carbs, the solids and the mag aren't what make a great deicer, then show it. I'm sorry if I don't have faith in most salemen, I've known too many that moved to another dealership/product and suddenly the stuff they used to sell which they said was the best, is now second to the stuff they sell now . Like I said I asked questions based on the respones of others and looking up what they said and asking for respones for others who should know the real deal. Also I have harsh view towards politicians.


We are not those sales guys that will disappear. My service company has used magic for six years now. Countryside Supply has been a dealer for three. If you have a specific question ask me and ill give you whatever info I can.

Thanks,
HF


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## Westhardt Corp. (Dec 13, 2009)

Maybe I missed a crucial detail here, but if you're using it...and it _works_...what's the problem, exactly?


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## Pirate52 (Jan 17, 2011)

*Always ask*

After reading the replies of Harold Finch and Juiced Induiced it seems more confusing on how deicers work. Granted it was fun reading them duel it out but neither seemed to back up anything that was said. They both said ours is better and unique. The only one that seemed to make it easy to understand was Digger63 and that was only his opinion. I was hoping that the responses from the Geomelt and the Magic people would be better and have some sort of paperwork to show how they came up with thier answer. Using straight salt was and still is the standard. Going to a treated product should be explained not only for it's benefit but how it does what it does. As with any thing else sooner or later someone comes up witha product that they say does the same or better than the first. Between dealers of deicers, that is what I would like to know, and that is what I thought this forum what all about not just propaganda of promoting one product.


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## Westhardt Corp. (Dec 13, 2009)

LOL, you should try looking into Prop 49.

:laughing:


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## indplstim (Dec 4, 2008)

Lol shark meet mr. Fonzerelli :::jumps:::


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