# New plow guy, Chevy 2500 beater with boss V plow and 600lb spreader



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Brand new to the game, picked up a 2 acre commercial parking lot, wide open, no curbs, medians, or sidewalks. Just cars in and out 24/7

Was able to get my hands on a 2000 chevy 2500 that was already setup, plow is rough, but works as it should. Spreader is frame mounted and not installed at the moment.

Do you guys think this setup will work to just sit and stay in one parking lot? 4wd works, truck drove 30 minutes home without issue (oil leak onto the muffler, but not worried about it). The only thing I need to get fixed asap is the plow has a crack on the left wing near the center hinge. Looks like a manhole or something got tripped. It still works, but that crack is likely going to grow so i'm going to take it to a welder to see if they can fix it. I will be calling my auto insurance to get lined out for plow insurance as well.

i've attached a photo of the truck and drew a line where the crack is. the crack isn't visible in the photo so i just drew a line for it. Paid $3500 for this, hoping to make some money on it. when he plow is in the v position the crack is much more open and the plow sort of hangs there, when the plow is straight the crack shuts itself and seems much more solid. Once i get this into the parking lot, the plow will likely stay straight and won't use a v position. Parking lot is in very bad shape, craters, potholes and the concrete is cracked everywhere, that is a main reason i did not purchase a nice shiny new plow. Any advice on getting through the rough spots? i assume i need to keep it up a bit off the ground so i'm not breaking stuff.

thanks!


----------



## buttaluv (Dec 8, 2000)

I’d go thru it with a fine tooth come..make sure it’s mechanically ready to go... trust me.. when you need to plow that 2 acre lot... that’s when you’ll find everything that’s wrong with it!.. plow too, make sure plugs, connections, etc, are all good and in good shape


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

I hear that. I will be doing the standard service on the pickup, check all fluids and make sure truck is solid. The plow iteself has a new hookup for the controller. There's a secondary that was left in place by the P.O. taht uses a joystick. He used this because the button one stopped working at one point and he had a backup, he then replaced the plugs and now the button switches work as they should. That being said the joystick is still in the cab and can be plugged in as a backup. I need to find out if there's any service points on this plow such as grease areas or anything I can do to keep it working smoothly.


----------



## seville009 (Sep 9, 2002)

rippinryno said:


> I need to find out if there's any service points on this plow such as grease areas or anything I can do to keep it working smoothly.


I soak everything that moves on my plow with Fluid Film or WD40

no zerks on mine (2007 MVP)


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Is there any fluids regarding the struts or anything like that?


----------



## seville009 (Sep 9, 2002)

rippinryno said:


> Is there any fluids regarding the struts or anything like that?


don't know about the truck; thought you were asking about the plow itself


----------



## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Boss and others and on Vee plos center hinge they Don’t always put on Zerks.
As they would just get ripped off by the snow. 
what you’ll see in a lot of places is a little round holes.
you get a fitting that goes on your grease gun and it goes into that hole and then you pump the grease in


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

ok, i have that needle fitting already. How often do these need new hydro fluid? i plan to check mine and top it off if needed but wasn't really going to drain and replace unless it is something that goes bad quickly.


----------



## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

A needle may be a little too fine. 
It needs to blunt blunt to seal around the whole so you can force the grease into the port.

The small short one works well on the plows the longer skinnier one works really good on the Dodge front driveshaft.


----------



## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Hydro fluid and some do it every year, I’m on the every other year to every third year.


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

i think for this season i will just check mine and top off, need to make sure the plow is worthy before i do anything lol. do you think that crack can hold or should i be getting that fixed immediately?


----------



## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

It’s common for when the wings get tweaked a little bit for them to crack in the center down low on the bottom like yours
I beat the cracked closed with a sledgehammer and then Weldeded it but they seem to crack right there again Unless the area is reinforced

If you’re not going to tend to it, 
try to avoid catching curbs and things when the wings are folded back all the way.
And keep an eye on it of course


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

good to know, thanks for the advice. I may drive with my V forward then if that helps at all? My big move this weekend is getting this beast of a spreader installed and put to work.


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

any pointers on getting the western spreader installed? it's a beast, the rear of the truck has the mount installed where it looks like the spreader will basically slide in and bolt up.


----------



## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

on a 2000 year truck, I would take a look at the brake lines...

Seems like that generation of trucks all the brake lines are rotting away about now.


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

One line wasnt replsced the others look good. Found something serious though on the a frame. Will have to hobble it to the welding shop my harbor freight welder wont cut it.


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

How scary is that crack ?


----------



## TJS (Oct 22, 2003)

This is the way I would do it:
All that has to be sanded to clean bright shiny metal. The crack ground out and filled in correctly with a 220V mig. Then the crack weld sanded smooth so you can get some plates over that. Plates should be cut and welded on at least 3 sides if not 4. About a 2 hour repair in my book and that would include CNC plasma cutting some simple 3/16" or 1/4" plates out. I don't use my saws anymore to cut stuff out. Easy peasy.


----------



## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Jb weld and forgetadoutit


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

i don't think jb weld is going to hold that crack lol. It's going to the welder, hopefully it's not too pricey because I can get a new one for 300 bucks.


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

TJS said:


> This is the way I would do it:
> All that has to be sanded to clean bright shiny metal. The crack ground out and filled in correctly with a 220V mig. Then the crack weld sanded smooth so you can get some plates over that. Plates should be cut and welded on at least 3 sides if not 4. About a 2 hour repair in my book and that would include CNC plasma cutting some simple 3/16" or 1/4" plates out. I don't use my saws anymore to cut stuff out. Easy peasy.


It's at a relatives machine shop now getting the royal treatment. I almost feel bad having such a pile of poop sitting out front their shop lol. THey're going to try to close that gap at the V hinge, but if the steel is stretched they will likely just weld a piece of flast stock in there. The push frame will get grinded and welded up so i'm hoping to be 100% asap. I'm not expecting a huge price break on this because labor costs money, so hoping it doesn't cost me an arm and a leg.


----------



## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

rippinryno said:


> i don't think jb weld is going to hold that crack lol. It's going to the welder, hopefully it's not too pricey because I can get a new one for 300 bucks.


 I would grind it down to remove rust,grind a good v joint at the crack and have all the plates cut and ready to weld. Save you a few bucks at the welder. Thats a 10 min job to weld it.The wing is a different story ,that's a pretty substantial rip.Tough to see how bad the geometry is off. Get it together and make some $$ its not a beauty contest !


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

What do you guys think my repair bill is gonna be?


----------



## TJS (Oct 22, 2003)

Did you ask them for an estimate ?


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

No, I don't mind paying the going rate, but wanted to ask what some of you guys would price for something like that. plow is probably staying attached to the vehicle so they'll have to disconnect battery if they're welding on it.


----------



## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

rippinryno said:


> plow is probably staying attached to the vehicle so they'll have to disconnect battery if they're welding on it.


why is this?


----------



## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

Philbilly2 said:


> why is this?


 I think its an old wives tale,I weld all the time on my vehicles and never had a problem.


----------



## leigh (Jan 2, 2009)

rippinryno said:


> No, I don't mind paying the going rate, but wanted to ask what some of you guys would price for something like that. plow is probably staying attached to the vehicle so they'll have to disconnect battery if they're welding on it.


  If I welded it for you I'd probably do it for 100$ But I'm a pushover ,always trying to help out ,that's why I'm poor with lots of poor friends ! Plus my welds are indestructible but look like S%&#


----------



## Brndnstffrd (Mar 8, 2013)

leigh said:


> If I welded it for you I'd probably do it for 100$ But I'm a pushover ,always trying to help out ,that's why I'm poor with lots of poor friends ! Plus my welds are indestructible but look like S%&#


Cheap, looks like crap but works great? I may be in need of your services...


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

leigh said:


> I think its an old wives tale,I weld all the time on my vehicles and never had a problem.


it's probably more of a new wives tale considering all the ecu, pcm, and overall electronics that could be at risk on vehicles of the past 20-30 years.

I'll trust the guys who weld everyday if it's something that is required or not.


----------



## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Damage could happen. If I'm doing a quicky like yesterday, I keep the ground clamp as close as possible to the weld. But if it's major. We had a broken frame on a KW with a 3406E. The ECM is removed.


----------



## TJS (Oct 22, 2003)

Randall Ave said:


> Damage could happen. If I'm doing a quicky like yesterday, I keep the ground clamp as close as possible to the weld. But if it's major. We had a broken frame on a KW with a 3406E. The ECM is removed.


This is basically what I do as well. It is just not worth the risk the extra time it takes to disconnect when doing major welding.


----------



## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

rippinryno said:


> What do you guys think my repair bill is gonna be?


 If there looking out for you some $170.00 to $180.00.


----------



## TJS (Oct 22, 2003)

Is this thing done yet. Pics ?


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Not done yet, they were calling for 1-3 inches tomorrow but it just got pulled from the forecast, thank god!

I'm hoping to get it back early next week if I don't hear from them this afternoon. I'll make sure to post photos of the repairs. The front crack will likely look patched, honestly the plow is so rough I don't care as long as it doesn't get any worse.


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

repair will be $300 or $400, i just checked in with them. hate to spend that much on such a rough plow, but it's gotta work for me and i need it done right so whatever. the account will pay it off pretty dang quick either way.


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Said everything's real thin and welds were blowing through lol.


----------



## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

That was $300?


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Yup, whats wrong?


----------



## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Philbilly2 said:


> That was $300?


I would have been half that, with a 50 percent discount.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Philbilly2 said:


> That was $300?


Cuz at best (or worst) it's $100 worth of work.


----------



## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Cuz at best (or worst) it's $100 worth of work.


First real good hit, what do ya think its gonna look like?


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Cuz at best (or worst) it's $100 worth of work.


8 welds, the time to dismount the plow and remount it and you're thinking that's an hours worth of work?

Part of the reason I was really interested in posting this and the cost was to see what some say. I'm not a welder. I have to trust the professionals, but I don't know if there's a shop within a million miles from me that would find all the spots and repair them like this place did for $100.

Just my opinion, if you get stuff welded alot maybe you're only paying $40 an hour?

I guess I could have just bought the entire push frame, it's only a few hundred, and would have made that entire area strong as this one was so thin.

We'll see how she holds up, need to get some paint on the welds and be ready for snow.


----------



## leolkfrm (Mar 11, 2010)

paint those welds and keep an eye on them, watch for cracking on edge of weld, as suggested it should have been plated for reinforcement, watch on fb marketplace/ craigslist for a backup or better plow, and save this one for backup


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

I've had my eye out for a straight blade to put on the truck. Ideally, if I find a boss I can keep the truck mount as well. Hard to find this time of year so I"m hoping this will clear my 1 parking lot for the season. We got the spreader hooked up and ran a quick test on that, seems to work fine. THis won't see heavy use, so I'm just really hoping it'll hold for me.


----------



## TJS (Oct 22, 2003)

8 welds? (point and shoot) and a small plate I think I see ?. Welding is 90% prep and actually 10% welding. I don't see a whole lot of prep there either. They created HAZ areas and hopefully for you it won't crack again. Your push frame needed doubler (fish plates) to prevent this like I said in my first post.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

rippinryno said:


> 8 welds, the time to dismount the plow and remount it and you're thinking that's an hours worth of work?
> 
> Part of the reason I was really interested in posting this and the cost was to see what some say. I'm not a welder. I have to trust the professionals, but I don't know if there's a shop within a million miles from me that would find all the spots and repair them like this place did for $100.


3 different people have questioned the $300 bill and all for the same reason.

It's your money.

Hate to know what it would have been withoot the "friends and family discount."


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

yes there are 8 welds on the plow. I suppose i can post more photos if you need? yes there is also a 6" plate. As i said, welds were blowing through due to the frame being so thin. i get it, everybody is a critic, but i didn't request a full rebuild of the push frame, i just needed the cracks fixed. if the welds were blowing through, i think they did what they could with what material they had. this wasn't a 1 hour job.

mark, a previous poster estimate 160-200 for the 2 spots. As you can tell, both sides of the push frame received several welds, not to mention the back of the plow got a weld, plus the plate on the front. I know you think it's $100 job at best, again, maybe your rates are cheaper than mine. Most folks without the attitude of you, would realize this is more than $100 worth of time and labor.

you are right, it's my money and honestly not a single comment you have made to this thread has done anything to advise, so it might be easiest to just ignore me.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

rippinryno said:


> mark, a previous poster estimate 160-200 for the 2 spots.


Fixed properly, yes $160-200.

If the welds were blowing through then you just threw $300 away. They should have recommended you buy a new frame.



rippinryno said:


> Most folks without the attitude of you, would realize this is more than $100 worth of time and labor.


K



rippinryno said:


> you are right, it's my money and honestly not a single comment you have made to this thread has done anything to advise, so it might be easiest to just ignore me.


Just trying to help. You can lead a horse to water...


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

they called and said it was rough and said they could do what they can. I already told them the cost of a new frame so that's why they called about it. I said "yes please, i'm trying to make this work for the year"

So yes, i gave approval to do the work so i didn't have to go through the entire task of replacing that push frame. 

It's going to get used this year, i'll keep everybody up to date on how it holds up.


----------



## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

rippinryno said:


> Said everything's real thin and welds were blowing through lol.
> 
> View attachment 197874
> 
> ...


The other wing needs some attention too
It's ripong off at the hinge.


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

You think so? i thought it looked fine.


----------



## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Yes, it's going to travel.

Most of them broke on the driver side wing before the passenger side .

Whoever operated that plowed sure was aggressive with it


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

No doubt about that. In my case it's cracked at least 2 times on the passenger side. i dont' think that little crack there is much to worry about considering the entire plow has been whooped twice over. It was likely operated by less experienced operators for 10 seasons. I'm hoping to be less agressive and make it work for the season. My goal is not to rebuild this plow, it's essentiallhy to get the rusty, thin, piece of crap to work for a single 2 acre parking lot. Essentially, it's rough, thin, and looks bad, but at this moment it is a fully functional boss v plow.

the entire setup now has me around $3800 for a working v plow, a working 600lb spreader, and a working 4wd chevy 3/4 ton.

The account will have that paid double in the first installment, so fingers crossed I can make this work.

One thing i noticed is that the float mode does nto work. you have to hold it to get it to go down, double tap function isn't there.


----------



## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

rippinryno said:


> One thing i noticed is that the float mode does nto work. you have to hold it to get it to go down, double tap function isn't there.


I can fix that for... say... $300? :laugh:


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

if it really bothered me i could switch back to the joystick, but i like the hand controller much better.

I get your little dig philbilly, your right i should have only paid $100 or lesss for the weld work. maybe in a fantasy world.


----------



## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

rippinryno said:


> I guess I could have just bought the entire push frame, it's only a few hundred, and would have made that entire area strong as this one was so thin.


I would go ahead and place your order now so your not down the wait time when it is snowing...


----------



## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

rippinryno said:


> if it really bothered me i could switch back to the joystick, but i like the hand controller much better.
> 
> I get your little dig philbilly, your right i should have only paid $100 or lesss for the weld work. maybe in a fantasy world.


You just need to find someone with a leftover A frame, quadrant, and tower for $500 bucks sitting in the back forty...


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Ajlawn1 said:


> You just need to find someone with a leftover A frame, quadrant, and tower for $500 bucks sitting in the back forty...
> 
> View attachment 198010


Who???


----------



## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Who???


No, I think he's mostly blizzard...


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Philbilly2 said:


> I would go ahead and place your order now so your not down the wait time when it is snowing...


you're a peach.

You don't have much confidence in what I have do ya?

Will be tough to find a boss push frame setup around, I'm seeing plenty of plows that would go on and could keep them as backup, but right now what I have works...might as well use it no?


----------



## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

rippinryno said:


> you're a peach.
> 
> You don't have much confidence in what I have do ya?
> 
> Will be tough to find a boss push frame setup around, I'm seeing plenty of plows that would go on and could keep them as backup, but right now what I have works...might as well use it no?


I have been around enough tired iron in my life to know that when the metal is "thin" as you said, it is only limited matter of time before it will fail you when you need it. Labor costs to much to have down time.

If a welder is blowing holes in the frame of your plow... it is time to replace or properly repair...

And yes, that was a pointed comment of it was not fixed properly.

Either way, I am not faulting you for running what you have.


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

It was fixed how i asked. We will let it rip, ill be sure to follow up mid season.


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

I painted it so its all better now.


----------



## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Hydromaster said:


> View attachment 198001
> Yes, it's going to travel.
> 
> Most of them broke on the driver side wing before the passenger side .
> ...


Cutting edges a in need of replacement, it's be tough putting $450.00 in edges on that "plow"


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Those cutting edges are fine. No way am i putting 450 into it


----------



## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

rippinryno said:


> Those cutting edges are fine. No way am i putting 450 into it


You're probably correct, the edges in their current state will out last the plow with ease.


----------



## jasburrito (Jul 9, 2014)

rippinryno said:


> No doubt about that. In my case it's cracked at least 2 times on the passenger side. i dont' think that little crack there is much to worry about considering the entire plow has been whooped twice over. It was likely operated by less experienced operators for 10 seasons. I'm hoping to be less agressive and make it work for the season. My goal is not to rebuild this plow, it's essentiallhy to get the rusty, thin, piece of crap to work for a single 2 acre parking lot. Essentially, it's rough, thin, and looks bad, but at this moment it is a fully functional boss v plow.
> 
> the entire setup now has me around $3800 for a working v plow, a working 600lb spreader, and a working 4wd chevy 3/4 ton.
> 
> ...


 That sounds like a great paying job. Can you tell us more about it. I would be interested in finding similar jobs. Thanks.


----------



## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

jasburrito said:


> I would be interested in finding similar jobs. Thanks.


Why? Your only plowing your own driveway remember? Your plow is for personal that's what you said


----------



## jasburrito (Jul 9, 2014)

Ok. But he is talking about $16000. Thats kinda eye opening. And i did find this.https://www.thumbtack.com/p/snow-plow-services-cost So he could possibly charge as much as $35000. That's more than i thought. I have people wanting me to plow there driveways for $20 or $35. Not gonna happen. But maybe i could get out of bed for some real money. Thanks


----------



## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

jasburrito said:


> But maybe i could get out of bed for some real money. Thanks


That's funny, you made it perfectly clear you aren't plowing for anyone....so now it's ok huh? Hypocrite are we?


----------



## jasburrito (Jul 9, 2014)

Theres a transmission repair shop in town. I have noticed many older beater plow trucks there. And i figure there plowing the $30 driveways. Then i see you guys with your exspensive trucks and hear of big money i wanna learn more. i would like to have at least two trucks and plows before taking on said work. I always change my mind.


----------



## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

jasburrito said:


> And i figure there plowing the $30 driveways. Then i see you guys with your exspensive trucks and hear of big money i wanna learn more.


Really? You've never seen half the guys trucks.
Your assuming the plow trucks are there from 30.00 drives?
Backpedaling are we now?


----------



## FordFisherman (Dec 5, 2007)




----------



## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

jasburrito said:


> Ok. But he is talking about $16000. Thats kinda eye opening. And i did find this.https://www.thumbtack.com/p/snow-plow-services-cost So he could possibly charge as much as $35000. That's more than i thought. s


I've read that $40,000 in 60 days is easily doable. Without even owning a plow. Or knowing how to operate one. Or having customers.


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

A $20,000 zero tolerance contract sounds like a lot of coin, but if you're taking into consideration equipment, fuel and salt....it only takes a couple hard snow months to be much closer to even than you would think.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

rippinryno said:


> zero tolerance contract


No such thing as a zero tolerance account.


----------



## leolkfrm (Mar 11, 2010)

cwren2472 said:


> I've read that $40,000 in 60 days is easily doable. Without even owning a plow. Or knowing how to operate one. Or having customers.


yup they are called national management companies!!!!


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

I can assure you, my client has a zero tolerance policy and our contract specifically states it in those terms. Slip free at all times bud. That's why they pay the big bucks.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

jasburrito said:


> That's more than i thought. I have people wanting me to plow there driveways for $20 or $35.


Better jump on it...those are good prices.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

rippinryno said:


> I can assure you, my client has a zero tolerance policy and our contract specifically states it in those terms. Slip free at all times bud. That's why they pay the big bucks.


Zero tolerance means you would never need a plow. If accumulation occurs, you failed.

As I said, no such thing as zero tolerance.


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

I appreciate your input Marky, I won't bite this morning.

I know the guys that do walmart here, I've seen the contract, it states the terms zero tolerance.

I also have a contract that states zero tolerance.

My day job hires a crew to do the entire association, that contract states zero tolerance. 

Whether or not you are changing the definition so that it doesn't meet your definition is one thing, but there are probably 50 contracts within a 1 mile radius of where I work that have the words "zero tolerance" in them. 

Time to find something better to do.....


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

rippinryno said:


> I appreciate your input Marky, I won't bite this morning.
> 
> I know the guys that do walmart here, I've seen the contract, it states the terms zero tolerance.
> 
> ...


I am trying to increase the professionalism of the industry by proving a point that zero tolerance is physically impossible and brings along with it unreasonable expectations and therefore increased liability.

I am not playing with anything. I've been in this industry longer than I've had a DL. The term is bad, impossible to fulfill and should never be used.

I am fully aware of its history. I service several accounts for the largest employer in GR and they used to have the term in their contracts, but they removed it because I had a discussion with the contract administrator and we both agreed it was impossible and a bad terminology.


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Way to go Mark, saving the industry one contract at a time!

I don't care, but thanks again for your input.

Fact:  There is such thing as zero tolerance contracts. They are quite common.

Your claim that they do not exist, is wrong.


----------



## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

rippinryno said:


> Way to go Mark, saving the *internet *one *post *at a time!


Fixed it.


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Right!


----------



## cwren2472 (Aug 15, 2014)

FordFisherman said:


>


Be a pal and pass some of the popcorn? I gotta get comfortable.


----------



## Ajlawn1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I service several accounts for the largest employer in GR


You service red army properties...?

By the way what terminology did you change it to...?


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Spectrum health is the largest employer in GR, so I'm guessing he's servicing several of those. I imagine that's the contract where "zero tolerance" language was removed.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

rippinryno said:


> Way to go Mark, saving the industry one contract at a time!


I'm not the only one, but someone that is actively involved in the industry would know this.



rippinryno said:


> Fact: There is such thing as zero tolerance contracts. They are quite common.


I never said there wasn't such a thing as zero tolerance contracts.

As usual, you're putting words in monitor ink that I never typed. Same issue you have at Lawnsite...claiming I typed something I didn't.



rippinryno said:


> Your claim that they do not exist, is wrong.


Reading comprehension...it's a thing.


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

you said zero tolerance account. I SAID CONTRACT in my original npost. Either way, It's not an account without a contract, so whatever wording you like best.....i've got a zero tolerance account and contract, how about that? 

You really want to talk about lawnsite? I came over here to make one post and you're on me like fry on rice. I know I am hard to resist, but come on man. Get outta here, you're arguing verbage right now because i said that i have a zero tolerance account/contract. In fact, I do have a zero tolerance account, because it states so in the contract.

Just like most of the commercial businesses in my area have a zero tolerance account, because it's states so in the contract.

I would also like to point out that your reading comprehension suffers as well. My original post about zero tolerance stated....ZERO TOLERANCE CONTRACT. However, your response to that was "no such thing as a zero tolerance account". So exactly what were you arguing? Did you not properly read my original post that specifically said it was a zero tolerance contract, and then you decided to change the word to account? Yeah, you're a trip man.....swinging words around like it's a circus.


----------



## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

How do you intend to maintain zero accumulation and service your other accounts
During times of heavy accumulation?

And how much salt do you use and or have stockpiled?


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

I have 1 account. That is why i am able to meet the needs of the contract. 

Currently i have 2 pallets of salt along with 60 bags of ice melt.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

rippinryno said:


> you said zero tolerance account. I SAID CONTRACT in my original npost. Either way, It's not an account without a contract, so whatever wording you like best.....i've got a zero tolerance account and contract, how about that?
> 
> You really want to talk about lawnsite? I came over here to make one post and you're on me like fry on rice. I know I am hard to resist, but come on man. Get outta here, you're arguing verbage right now because i said that i have a zero tolerance account/contract. In fact, I do have a zero tolerance account, because it states so in the contract.
> 
> ...


If you say so...


----------



## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

rippinryno said:


> I have 1 account. That is why i am able to meet the needs of the contract.
> 
> Currently i have 2 pallets of salt along with 60 bags of ice melt.


Why's the difference between salt and icemelt ?

How many guys do you have on this one account ? because when it's snowing a inch and hour or better I can barely keep 300 feet of sidewalk clear...
this must be a small lot?

And two more question how does this one lot pay for your insurance and your overhead?
How do you make money with just one account?


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

I said so originally did I not? "zero tolerance contract". You're the one who decided to change it to "zero tolerance account" and then proceed to bark at me for lack of reading comprehension. Both the account and the contract are zero tolerance....so again, you are wrong. You decided that you want to get after me this morning, and it didn't go as planned. That's not really my fault.

Hydro, this is my first year. the ice melt has some extra chemicals in it....google it. the salt is nothing more than sodium chloride. google it.

First account, first year, I feel that as long as we don't get a record breaking winter, I will be well ahead. I pay for insurance as I do with the other side of the business, it's fairly straight forward, but I do appreciate you asking about it. Where I am at, we dont' total more than 20" for an entire season. Do i have your permission to proceed?


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

rippinryno said:


> I said so originally did I not? "zero tolerance contract". You're the one who decided to change it to "zero tolerance account" and then proceed to bark at me for lack of reading comprehension. Both the account and the contract are zero tolerance....so again, you are wrong. You decided that you want to get after me this morning, and it didn't go as planned. That's not really my fault.


K


----------



## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

rippinryno said:


> I have 1 account. That is why i am able to meet the needs of the contract.
> 
> Currently i have 2 pallets of salt along with 60 bags of ice melt.


We use the term priority account, but don't say the term "zero tolerance" nor set a time of day that the snow will be cleared by


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

I can't set a time for snow removal because I am there either directly before or right as the snow or ice is falling from the heavens. I will continue to be there making sure it's clear the entire event. The plow truck is staged on site all season.


----------



## jasburrito (Jul 9, 2014)

rippinryno said:


> A $20,000 zero tolerance contract sounds like a lot of coin, but if you're taking into consideration equipment, fuel and salt....it only takes a couple hard snow months to be much closer to even than you would think.


That still sounds pretty good for 2 acres. If i could find like a 6 or 8 acre lot to plow i could live in the lot all winter and take the summers off. What kind of business are you plowing? A hospital? Thanks


----------



## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

jasburrito said:


> That still sounds pretty good for 2 acres. If i could find like a 6 or 8 acre lot to plow i could live in the lot all winter and take the summers off. What kind of business are you plowing? A hospital? Thanks


Here you go


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

No way could i take on 6-8 acres. I suppose it really depends on how much snowfall you get. Around here, it's more salt than anything with the once or twice 4-6" snowfall total. I probably just jinxed myself.


----------



## jasburrito (Jul 9, 2014)

I almost think for 20k you could sub that lot out and make out great. (Fyi. i am a newb and my advice has been deemed bad many times) Be alot less hassle and exspense. Not all plow guys need new trucks and fancy stuff. Is it a casino?


----------



## dieselss (Jan 3, 2008)

jasburrito said:


> I almost think for 20k you could sub that lot out and make out great.


Really, for someone who doesn't plow, sure know your pricing huh?


----------



## Mike_PS (Feb 28, 2005)

jasburrito said:


> I almost think for 20k you could sub that lot out and make out great. (Fyi. i am a newb and my advice has been deemed bad many times) Be alot less hassle and exspense. Not all plow guys need new trucks and fancy stuff. Is it a casino?


your advice isn't always bad, per se, but since you do not do this professionally, you're really not at liberty to discuss such things...so, you should most likely post in threads relevant to your situation

thanks and let's keep the discussion going forward and in a positive direction


----------



## Freshwater (Feb 28, 2014)

rippinryno said:


> I can't set a time for snow removal because I am there either directly before or right as the snow or ice is falling from the heavens. I will continue to be there making sure it's clear the entire event. The plow truck is staged on site all season.


Lets discuss 0 tolerance "CONTRACTS". What they imply, and what you just contracted yourself to accomplish. 0 tolerance implies, that you can't let a single flake of snow touch the lot at anytime for the entire length of the contract. Your client has just hired you to prevent any and all snow from touching the lot at all times, and you signed on the dotted line. Now your stuck trying to figure out what to do after the heavens start dropping the snow and before any snow touches the lot. Theres 0 tolerance for snow on the lot. A plow truck at any price point wont accomplish this task, but you've agreed to it. If you get sued their attorneys will hold you to this standard.


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Freshwater said:


> Lets discuss 0 tolerance "CONTRACTS". What they imply, and what you just contracted yourself to accomplish. 0 tolerance implies, that you can't let a single flake of snow touch the lot at anytime for the entire length of the contract. Your client has just hired you to prevent any and all snow from touching the lot at all times, and you signed on the dotted line. Now your stuck trying to figure out what to do after the heavens start dropping the snow and before any snow touches the lot. Theres 0 tolerance for snow on the lot. A plow truck at any price point wont accomplish this task, but you've agreed to it. If you get sued their attorneys will hold you to this standard.


Actually, no. That is not what zero tolerance refers to in my contract. It refers to me being there to treat push or salt before, during, and after the event. Meaning there is a zero tolersnce threshold. Zero tolerance does not mean snow cant hit the ground. It means my vehicle is to be staged there and in use for a flat contract fee to provide zero tolerance snow and ice removal. Not 1 ", not 2" but any and all storms i am there doing snow removal. No triggers, blizzard fees, etc etc etc.


----------



## jonniesmooth (Dec 5, 2008)

Maybe this will clear up the " zero tolerance " issue?
You can have a " zero tolerance " contract
You can have a " zero tolerance " account 
What you can't do is provide " zero tolerance " service
What you can do is provide 24/7 service to that account. Which means that you have someone('s) on site keeping lanes open and salted, and walks done. But even then, by the time they finish a lap, take a poo and start over, a new accumulation has occured.


----------



## Freshwater (Feb 28, 2014)

rippinryno said:


> Actually, no. That is not what zero tolerance refers to in my contract. It refers to me being there to treat push or salt before, during, and after the event. Meaning there is a zero tolersnce threshold.


Except you dont get to choose what 0 tolerance wording means in your contracts. Trial courts have already decided what it means for you. Through litigation in past lawsuits. Court president says it means exactly what I just told you it means.


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Oh bull honky. You think every court rules when a flake falls the snow removal company is at fault. Good god. The courts do not define zero tolerance. It is a standard statement meaning low threshold. Low threshold is exactly what my contract states and specifically explains that i am there during events. Courts do not define zero tolerance. My contract does. It does so by explaining there is no threshold and i am to be removing snow before during and after. My site is a zero tolersnce site which means it takes presidence. Do not attemot to define the term based on what you think courts rule. No, litigation does not define the terms in my contract. They are defined by the contract itself where zero tolerance means that snownremoval must be taking place if its snowing. It doesnt mean snow cant hit the ground. Doesnt mean i cant poop. My contract also specifically states that snow will not exceed 1 inch at anytime. So by definition, in my contract, zero tolerance is actually 1 inch....however i am to be doing removal immediately which is where the term zero tolerance comes in.


----------



## Freshwater (Feb 28, 2014)

You've defined 0 tolerance as low tolerance. 
So you dont have a 0 tolerance policy at all.... you have a low tolerance policy. 
This is NOT a 0 tolerance contract. Words matter. Legal definitions matter. Attorneys will take your company then go have lunch they dont care.
I'm happy that you dont have one.


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

No zero tolerance on my contract means if its snowing im there, no threshold to be met. If it does exceed 1 inch then i could be held liable. Zero tolerance does not mean zero snow on the ground.


----------



## Freshwater (Feb 28, 2014)

rippinryno said:


> No zero tolerance on my contract means if its snowing im there, no threshold to be met. If it does exceed 1 inch then i could be held liable.


That's not 0 tolerance. I changed my wording to "continuous service". 
Theres an educational movement in the industry to get rid of 0 tolerance phrasing all together. It's actually very dangerous to contractors, and impossible to meet. That was Mark's point.


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Zero tolerance is described and defined specifically in my contract. I did not post my contract that was an industry standard description i posted above. My contract decribes it as i already have. It is a zero tolerance contract as defined. This is across many many contracts including some of the largest retailers in the country.


----------



## Freshwater (Feb 28, 2014)

rippinryno said:


> Zero tolerance is described and defined specifically in my contract. I did not post my contract that was an industry standard description i posted above. My contract decribes it as i already have. It is a zero tolerance contract as defined. This is across many many contracts including some of the largest retailers in the country.


Theres no such thing as an industry standard description in snow plowing. That contract posted changes the meaning of 0 tolerance to low tolerance, written in text. If yours does that fine. If not you or any of us are in trouble. 0 tolerance phrasing without that addendum or something like that.... means 0 tolerance.... no snow ever.


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

Zero tolerance is as described in contract. It doesnt mean zero tolerance for snow it means zero tolerance for removal to begin and occur. Meaning when it snows removal must begin asap, no tolerance.

My screenshot cam from the snow and ice association....sort of an industry standard but whatever.


----------



## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

rippinryno said:


> My contract also specifically states that snow will not exceed 1 inch at anytime. So by definition, in my contract, zero tolerance is actually 1 inch....however i am to be doing removal immediately which is where the term zero tolerance comes in.


Just had 20" of snow in 16 hours, started last night and went into this afternoon. During the peak of the storm is was snowing aboot 2.5" an hour. At that rate of snow fall you're not going to meet your contractual obligations with one pickup with a plow.... providing your A frame doesn't fold or your wing falls oof.

FWIW the guys aren't being malicious and trying to whizz ewe oof. They're trying to educate you so you don't hose yourself and promote Zero tolerance accounts due to in it's try sense it's not achievable. Many of the guys have faced litigation due to the contract verbiage and trying to warn you of want can come.


----------



## Freshwater (Feb 28, 2014)

rippinryno said:


> Zero tolerance is as described in contract. It doesnt mean zero tolerance for snow it means zero tolerance for removal to begin and occur. Meaning when it snows removal must begin asap, no tolerance.
> 
> My screenshot cam from the snow and ice association....sort of an industry standard but whatever.


Most contracts unfortunately dont describe anything. 
Your saying 0 tolerance is when you start plowing, well you have to start plowing at 0 snow. So 1 min before snow? 1 hour before snow? The day before? The day after?
Attorneys will pick this apart.
SIMA for all the good they do, has no legal standing to determine industry standards.
Unless some specific state has written legislation for their state. I'm not aware of anything federal.


----------



## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

I have read most of this thread and I have to say I have Zero Tolerance for it.


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

The problem here is that some of you assume what zero tolerance means based on your own definition?? In my contract it means zero tolerance threshold. Meaning i do not wait for 2 inches before i show up. Attorneys will not pick anything apart. Its simple when snow is forecasted i need to be there ready to remove it. If i show up an hour later that is not zero tolerance. 

I love the plow jabs cant wait to use it. If it snows 20" here in a storm we will have broken every record in the last 50 years. If it snows 2.5" in an hour, my 8 footer will have that lot cleared twice already.


----------



## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

LapeerLandscape said:


> I have read most of this thread and I have to say I have Zero Tolerance for it.


Thanks mike!

I have to commend @Mark Oomkes with his post about upholding the industry to a professional
Standard and maintaining the professionalism in the profession. It's too bad more people (the op) can't have the same view.


----------



## BossPlow2010 (Sep 29, 2010)

rippinryno said:


> The problem here is that some of you assume what zero tolerance means based on your own definition?? In my contract it means zero tolerance threshold. Meaning i do not wait for 2 inches before i show up.


 what's trigger mean then and for giggles what is the trigger amount?


> Attorneys will not pick anything apart.


thats gotta be the dumbest thing you've ever said



> Its simple when snow is forecasted i need to be there ready to remove it. If i show up an hour later that is not zero tolerance.


Ok


> I love the plow jabs cant wait to use it. If it snows 20" here in a storm we will have broken every record in the last 50 years. If it snows 2.5" in an hour, my 8 footer will have that lot cleared twice already.


 what if your truck breaks down?
What are you plowing anyways if it's zero tolerance there shouldn't be snow on the lot...


----------



## Hydromaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Ok
So let's say there is a 30% chance of snow do you drive to your account and sit in the truck and wait for it to happen ?

Instead of waiting for 2" you have a 1"trigger?

Just trying to understand what your definition or your clients definition of zero tolerance .

Example Davy
http://www.davey.com/commercial-lan...l-snow-removal/case-studies/cleveland-clinic/

When you look at his pictures we , you can see snow and ice on the ground especially in the pic with the bobcat.
is that zero tolerance ?

How is zero tolerance for worded in your contract?


----------



## rippinryno (Nov 14, 2019)

For gods sake my truck is staged at the lot. This id a full service on call zero tolerance contract. A robust contract. Not some " be there in an hour garbage" i will work for 1 client. There is no trigger people. I will maintain the lot the entire snow event, without exceeding 1" on the ground. Thats the zero tolerance contract i have won with my customer. I, like many many many other snow removal operators have come to agreement with my customer. I know that many of you cannot fathom zero tolerance because you cant serve one customer that well. You have too many accounts and cant dedicste yourself to one customer.

Davey gets it and so do a hundred thousand other operators.....time to get with it folks.


----------



## Mike_PS (Feb 28, 2005)

I'm thinking we all get the point and this thread has run its course? We can only hear, read about, etc. what zero tolerance is and I'm pretty sure it needs to be clear if a contract is in place...that being said, let's move on from this discussion

thanks all


----------

