# towing info. ????



## matthew Urban (Oct 27, 2000)

I am looking for towing suggestions. 
The company I work for has the following equipment.

JD 775 with loader and hoe
Bobcat 751?(not sure on specific model)
thomas mini-x T35s(3.5 ton)

We have the trailers to handle the load's, the debate here is what to haul them with?
We currently have 2 dodge 2500's, a ford 250, and a gmc 1500 (mowing truck). 
We have a 5 yd dump trailer but in for my money it can be tough to back into certain places. 

My thinking is to get a truck that can haul a machine(above) and or 5-7yds of mulch. Or a load of wall stone or pavers etc...
what would you suggest?
Also what trailer hitch, ball or pintle?
thanks, 
matt


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## cat320 (Aug 25, 2000)

why not get a hook lift system with a small 20-25gvw truck.


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## matthew Urban (Oct 27, 2000)

I'm pretty sure the boss doesn't want to go that big(20-25k
). One thing I should add is it wwoould be one machine at a time. 

I was thinking F450, or F550. 
My thought was a one ton with the trailer/machine and a load of mulch or stone or what ever would be a bit much for any duration.
matt


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## BOSS Adam (Jun 13, 2001)

I would go with the F-550 4x4 powerstroke


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## matthew Urban (Oct 27, 2000)

Thanks guys, 
boss, that was my thought too.

As I would probably be the one to do most of the hauling thats what I would be most comfortable with. (feel safer with)
My boss's issue's are, 
$$$ up front vs. having it delivered. I say we can use it to haul materials to the job more easily as well. ( so we don't have to depend on somone elses delivery schedule).
The psd seems to be an issue. He seems to be into the gas motors.(as thats what we have so far). I say what about resale w/ a psd, and fuel mileage.

I guess basicly what are the pro's and con's of the situation??


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## OBRYANMAINT (May 20, 2001)

what you really need as mentioned above is a single axle dump, but you could get by with a one ton


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## matthew Urban (Oct 27, 2000)

What I would like to see is at least an F350 dump body with the psd. Bigger, of coarse , wouldn't hurt.

My other question is ball vs pintle? 
Who has what and why?
thanks again, 
Matt


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## 2401 (Feb 3, 2001)

I'm a big fan of pintle hitches. Maybe I'm paranoid, or just prefer everything heavy-duty, but I'd rather see that big ring on a trailer than the formed sheet-metal ball coupler. 

I figure if a pintle hitch setup is good enough to use on big truck equipment (pup trailers on dump trucks, doubles/triples combinations and the big "turnpike doubles" seen in the Northeast, none of which I have seen using ball hitches) it's good enough for my little "toy" truck.


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## snow (Jan 5, 2001)

Maybe GeoffD will jump in, but maybe an F650, or an International 4700 series would be the thing. A local mason has a 650 and pulls his mini ex/skidsteer around with it. If you want a 4x4, get a 550 but for the same price of a 450/550 you can get a nice F650. and with a bigger truck there's more towing capatcity, dump payload, etc if the business expands or does bigger jobs.


bryan


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## CT18fireman (Nov 30, 2000)

I like the pintle as well. It is very nice for pulling heavier trailers. However a downsid is that it is a loose connection. This means that is often has some jerking of the trailer and pulling vehicle. 

For boat trailers and campers the ball connection means a much smoother attachment.


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## matthew Urban (Oct 27, 2000)

Bryan, 
I hope GeoffD WILL jump in, at this point though, we are just a landscape co. I would like to talk the boss into limited (at least) snow removal for our existing client base. 
As I am into the snowplowing end on my own.(plowsite, a great thing))
I see an oppurtunity to expand with my hands on experience, and his business experiance.
All advice appreciated.
thanks again, 

matt


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## GeoffD (Dec 21, 1999)

Snow summed up the 650 really well. Thats it in a nutshell. if you have any questions that are detailed feel free to ask.

Geoff


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## matthew Urban (Oct 27, 2000)

Geoff, 
what would the insurance increase be for a 550-650, vs a 350 dually?

Also, what in your opinion, would be the better option, more importantly why?

The last company I worked for had a ford model 1940? with loader and hoe, with all 1 ton's and an INT. S1600 dump so thats what I am used to.

My major concern is hauling a large amount of material/equipment to a job with what we have now.
Secondarily, if we go and buy something I would like it to be usefull all the time.
Any price suggestions?
Thanks as allways,
matt


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## cat320 (Aug 25, 2000)

I would have to agree with snow too and a pintle will tow more weight but you will feel the jerkiness of the trailer.A 550 is nice for the size on small jobs and the 4x4 option but fot the same $$ you could go with a much heavier truck with out 4x4 and go with the 650.you can go to ford web site and price out both .


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## matthew Urban (Oct 27, 2000)

Thank you all, 

At this point I guess my questions as an employee are:

what would you look for if you were me? Conversely: if you were the boss?

And as far as snow work goes with the trucks above and maybe a new one( F-whatever), do you think a moderate plow route would be beneficial/profitable (annual avg 75"/year) to our company?

I am just looking to expand our company's service base & profitability. 
again, 
thanks for the insight
matt


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## cat320 (Aug 25, 2000)

Well for plowing If you are doing big lots or road go with the 650 put a big v box in back for your sanding.Then you will have the extra payload and towing capacity.If you need 4x4 and will do smaller lots or real hilly areas go the 550 will still have a good size sander on back and tow a good size bobcat or minni excavator.Get diesel in both with automatic transmistion.Thats what i would do if I was basing it around plowing but a 650 is really not mutch bigger than the 550 Size wise not like comparing it to a mack.


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## matthew Urban (Oct 27, 2000)

cat320, 
what did you get this weekend?
my dad is in melrose. I'm just curious.

matt


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## cat320 (Aug 25, 2000)

we got about 3" of real wet stuff.just a big pain in the rear to clean up but good for sanding later when it froze.


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## matthew Urban (Oct 27, 2000)

you did better than me, 
this last storm brought a total of 3/4".
not gonna get rich this year 
Ever been out this way?
matt


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## cat320 (Aug 25, 2000)

last year was out at Hatfield


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## matthew Urban (Oct 27, 2000)

close, but...

can't beat the scenery, for a couple hour ride. 
I grew up in framingham, its 125 miles, and a world away. 
matt


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## cat320 (Aug 25, 2000)

It is nice out that way had to go look at a peice of equipment out there.would of been great if it was fall.at least with al this rain and freezing at night wet get to sand any ways.just got a load in today.


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## matthew Urban (Oct 27, 2000)

hey, 
any word for the watertown/waltham area?
my grandmothers there, and I hate to think of her out shoveling at 79 yrs old.
If you want to get away, 
http://www.rookwoodinn.com
thats where I work during the winter.
give us a call
matt


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## cat320 (Aug 25, 2000)

just saw the weather said probaly like and inch or two maby out past 128 belt just saw your place looks very ,very nice


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## matthew Urban (Oct 27, 2000)

thanks, 
I try and take good care of it.
I only wish it were mine.(sort of, huge overhead)

It's fun to be around an old historic place like this.
As I work here, I also plow the lot, It can be fun with 25 cars in it, and a foot a snow.
matt


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## SCL (Jul 27, 2000)

I think we're all in agreement that a 550 4x4 would be nice, but Matt has said they probably can't put out $20k or better. From what I've seen you can't even toch a used 550 for anything near that. Lots of single axle dumps out there, just keep your eyes open. With your equipment you could use a 450 pretty easily, or go to the 600 or a c60/c70. Cornbinders are nice , heavier duty than their counterparts, just a little parts sensitive. Can plow with any of them, I do all of mine with a 350 2wd. Just a thought!


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## SLSNursery (Dec 21, 1999)

*I agree with Cat on the Hook*

I have a smaller hook- 8 ton - on an Isuzu NQR GVW - 17000). That Truck is mint for loading and dumping, or delivering stuff. And, when you don't need to bring a load, you don't need a trailer at all, just put the tractor or skid steer on a body, hook and go. I wouldn't recommend it for towing heavy loads, but it works well if you need the versatility. If you want to haul and tow heavy loads, the F-650 or 750 will work. The hook would be suitable as well as the heavier truck payload, but this option might price the truck out of your range quicker. The Isuzu was affordable and we had a heavier truck. No 4wd though.

As far as getting the job, done, even yesterday we used our F-350 dually to pull a loaded (3 - 3800# pallets of pavers) 6 ton trailer with a pallet on the truck as well. It was heavy, but did the job, since the bigger trucks are tied up. Truthfully, it did perfectly on the highway, but the stop and go around town was a little painful. I'm not sure how much more bang for your buck you'll get with a 450 or 550. My thought, which parallels some others, would be to step up to the bigger trucks for the same money, and underload it, rather than constantly overload the smaller truck. Maybe get a nice heavy under CDL chassis - like a mid 90s F-800 or International Equivalent. You could change the body configuration later. With our 95 F-800, we load 6-8 yards of loam and pull our 580 backhoe on a 9-ton trailer without a problem.

All of our trucks have pintle hooks. I don't find that there is a tremendous amount of jerkiness, and we don't have to wrestle with different sized balls, broken couplers, etc. On a side, note, I saw a single axle with an air pintle hitch to stop the jerkiness. That would be nice to have for the bigger stuff.


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## matthew Urban (Oct 27, 2000)

Guys, 
thanks for the help,
I talked to the boss today, and he's still unsure of the usefullness of a larger truck, when weighed against its cost+upkeep etc.. The 20k is less the issue. He will spend for quality if it will be useful. 

I've been trying to sway him into getting at least a 1 ton, for towing the bobcat,tractor, materials. He still seems to like the idea of having the miniX delivered.

Next question, I've been involved with the purchase of sevreal 1ton dumps (previous job) but never anything bigger.
What's a 450 or 550 worth? At this point, we aren't in the snow biz yet, so it wouldn't need to be 4x4. Or would it be a good idea reguardless. Though I would like to get the boss into it, at least for our "better" clients.

thanks again
matt


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## cat320 (Aug 25, 2000)

Matt,I would just say to him if you use them alot that you will save time by having it there when you need it or being able to to do multiple jobs.Hvaing a good truck and trailer to pull it will only beifite you if he does this all the time.And if i was to get the 450-550 would really try to get 4x4 for snow later if you plan on going that route.A2wd would be good on flat big lots but not small areas or hills in my opinion.


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## matthew Urban (Oct 27, 2000)

cat320, 
any advice on pricing?
matt


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## cat320 (Aug 25, 2000)

well I have gon on ford web site and priced out a 450-550 your looking at list price in the mid 30's an airflow 9' body2-3 yd $4,600 and a fisher plow9' for about $3,400.You might find some used from rental co or finance co's.and then for somewhere near late model probaly at $26K-28K .I got my cube van with low miles from AMI it was great diesel,auto 15' body and the body was over $5,500 new if I bought a new chassie.and it was only about 4 yrs old.


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