# skid steer vs truck whats more productive?



## 86f350

Im looking to add another machine or truck for next season. I've ben plowing for 12 yrs and have plowed alot of snow with a skid steer with a bucket and a truck with a 8 ft plow.
I have never used a pusher though. What to you guys think is more productive? A skid steer with a 8 ft pusher, a 8 ft blade or a truck with a 8 ft blade. Most of my accounts are smaller to medium commercial lots. i have multiple lots right next to each other so i could road the skid steer to these lots without much travel time.


----------



## WIPensFan

There are a lot of unknowns in that question. How tight are the lots? Is skid steer 2-speed? Do you need to relocate snow on site? Truck is faster in most cases in open areas. Skid steer can make you money doing other things. Try to answer some of your own questions, then we can help more.


----------



## Pennings Garden

All depends on the lot... We do a lot that a skid with a 8' pusher out plows a truck almost 2 to 1 (we can push both ways, no backing up) we do a lot where a truck where a truck will out push a skid 2 to 1 (1000' long but only 60' wide, you can roll it it over at 15 miles and hour)
If you do a condo complex with 100 short drives with garages at the end, you and back drag them all with down pressure's and a blade on a skid...

it all depends on what you do.


----------



## smokin4by

if i've read your question right, you are asking if an 8ft pusher box it better than a probably 60" bucket? YES, by far. a box will move more like 3x the snow than a standard bucket.

and

is a skid steer more productive than a truck with a blade? SOMETIMES, if your jobs are all together then with a good operator, YES. if they are spread out over some distance, and you have to lug around a trailer and load it up, move it, un-load it, fuel it....as you can see alot of time not in use, plus a truck is still needed to move it....so in that case NO

hope that helps


----------



## Pinky Demon

A truck with a V plow or expandable wing plow is more productive.


----------



## RJ lindblom

A few variables that make a difference. Also with figuring productivity also consider repairs and other cost of ownership.

By the sound of your scenario I would vote skid loader but would some more details.


----------



## 86f350

i would probably and up with a case 1845 because of the availability and price. None of my lots are real tight quarters. skid steer wouldnt be a 2 speed. I know you can go alot quicker with a truck mph wise but i didnt know cause with a skid steer you could plow both directions. Also having a skid steer would give me a chance to haul out snow if customer would need it which isnt needed much for me just another way to make a few more bucks as you all know. any thoughts on a angle blade vs box. I could leave machine on site in a heated shop and travel to the other lots which would be within a 1/2 mile with out loading it up.


----------



## buckwheat_la

we use skidsteers for most of our snow removal, and in the end i find the skidsteer more productive. load up time, unload time, and the fact the machine is slow works against it, BUT, manuverbility, torque, and stacking ability. around here, for the first part of the season, the trucks go around zooming through parking lots and out performing skidsteers, BUT as snow turns to ice, and people run out of room to put snow in lots, then those same trucks are phoning skidsteers to push up piles, remove piles, etc. Also, a skidsteer is going to clean down to black top better, JMO and experience around here. 

Also, a 1845 case skidsteer is a great machine, possibly the best skidsteer ever!!!


----------



## cretebaby

buckwheat_la;964296 said:


> Also, a 1845 case skidsteer is a great machine, possibly the best skidsteer ever!!!


----------



## buckwheat_la

cretebaby;964333 said:


>


someone may wish to disagree, but i can think of more then one 1845 running over 10 000 hours with no major problems, around here a 1845 from the 90's well fetch a better price then some 2000year + machines


----------



## WIPensFan

buckwheat_la;964344 said:


> someone may wish to disagree, but i can think of more then one 1845 running over 10 000 hours with no major problems, around here a 1845 from the 90's well fetch a better price then some 2000year + machines


Such as...


----------



## snocrete

Alot depends on accounts, operator, machine, pusher/attachment/plow,etc.......I have found the SS's are better off not being trailered around, unless absolutely neccessary. Examples - It's your only peice of equip. , you are running out of room on jobs and need to tighten up your piles or relocate them, etc.

Where the SS's w'pushers have worked well for me, is in tightly grouped areas of accounts, where the SS can just be driven down the road from one place to the next. Also on big accounts where the snow needs to be carried greater distances (mini storages,walmarts,lowes,etc). My 8ft & ecspecially my 10ft SS pusher will carry more snow than truck plows.....and that includes blizzards, wideouts, vplows w/wings, and so on. Each situation is different, and they (trucks & machinery) all have their place.....but as I have stated before, if I was to have only 1 rig, it would be a SS. They will outlast any truck, and in the worst of storms when trucks cant get er done, SS's will still be working.


----------



## buckwheat_la

WIPensFan;964360 said:


> Such as...


if you are talking prices, if you look up Auto trader, in alberta right now, there is a mid 90's 1845C, i believe it is listed for $16000 right now, and he well probably get it


----------



## Brian Young

We just bought a skid steer this past friday (I was tired of relying on "friends" to help us out). I havent had a pusher on it yet but I've been in it since Friday night stacking. If it were me, I would look into a skid steer, you can do so much more with one piece of equipment.


----------



## cold_and_tired

I find my skid to be more efficient at the gas stations that I push. Obviously I am not using the pusher to it's full capacity but given the maneuverability of the machine and the ability for the rubber edge of the push box to float over the fuel caps, I find it the best for the situation.

The rest of my accounts are medium size commercials and a couple of HOA's with about half a mile of road in which all of the snow has to be moved to one pile.

I find the skid and push box will go head to head with the truck as far as quantity of snow moved but if you have a truck doing windrows and the skid picking them up, times will be dramatically reduced.

Like others have said, it all depends on the situation that the skid would be put in.


----------



## SuperdutyShane

What about a truck with a pusher?


----------



## cold_and_tired

SuperdutyShane;964508 said:


> What about a truck with a pusher?


WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYY too efficient. I'm paid by the hour.payup


----------



## SuperdutyShane

cold_and_tired;964520 said:


> WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYY too efficient. I'm paid by the hour.payup


Oh man I didnt think of that!

With that thought, sell all the trucks, buy all single speed skidsteers with small buckets


----------



## Westhardt Corp.

What I've found is that the 9' blade I was using did a great job as long as the snowfalls weren't much over 6". Most trucks just can't make a long push when the snow is super heavy. SS can typically take it in stride and go all the way without much drama, and stacking is much better of course. It's akin to the tortoise and the hare. The SS is a slow, very strong tortoise. Whereas the truck is the hare, but not nearly as capable when the loads increase.

Trucks rule for rapid opening, no doubt. I found the ultimate solution was to run both in each crew.


----------



## Westhardt Corp.

SuperdutyShane;964528 said:


> Oh man I didnt think of that!
> 
> With that thought, sell all the trucks, buy all single speed skidsteers with small buckets


_Walk behinds_, at that.

:laughing:


----------



## buckwheat_la

SuperdutyShane;964528 said:


> Oh man I didnt think of that!
> 
> With that thought, sell all the trucks, buy all single speed skidsteers with small buckets





Westhardt Corp.;964532 said:


> _Walk behinds_, at that.
> 
> :laughing:


Shane's still a young pup, he is only allowed to operate walk behinds,


----------



## SuperdutyShane

buckwheat_la;964539 said:


> Shane's still a young pup, he is only allowed to operate walk behinds,


Oh yeah, best believe Im getting back at you for that comment. You cant even be nice on my birthday? :crying:

:laughing:


----------



## buckwheat_la

your b-day, really!!!, ok, i take it back


----------



## Lawn Enforcer

This is my first year in a truck, and I will say that a skid steer would be a lot more efficient in a lot of cases. All my accounts but one (gas station) are driveways, and all of my accounts are within 1-2 miles of my shop, so trailering a skid for me isn't necessary. I can see in many situations where a skid would be excellent, especially when it comes to heavy, wet snows, around mailboxes and light poles, and going back to push/remove piles. Sometimes in small areas, I find myself spending way to much time placing the truck in the right position to push the snow. I watched a guy do a driveway across the street from one of my accounts with a Bobcat S130, the same size as the one I was doing, and he was in and out in less than 5 minutes, whereas my Ford F250 long bed with a 7.5 Meyer plow took just over 10 minutes. The ideal thing is to have both, but in the end, my vote is with a skid.


----------



## Pennings Garden

Pinky Demon;964276 said:


> A truck with a V plow or expandable wing plow is more productive.


Just try doing a 180 in 1.5 seconds, I'll be half way across the lot in my skid by time you either backed up all the way or have turned around, but yes there are some applications where a V blade will be more efficient, just not all the time...


----------



## Pinky Demon

Pennings Garden;965111 said:


> Just try doing a 180 in 1.5 seconds, I'll be half way across the lot in my skid by time you either backed up all the way or have turned around, but yes there are some applications where a V blade will be more efficient, just not all the time...


And while you are still putzing across the lot, I'll be shifting into reverse after already stacking my pass up.

Trust me, I've worked alongside skilled skid steer operators. Skid steers with 10 ft. snow pushers are nothing compared to an F-350 with a 9.2 in. Boss V-XT blade, not to mention if you throw in wings.

While you can get closer and stack better with a skid, as long as the truck can maneuverer, a skid is screwed.


----------



## snocrete

Pinky Demon;965314 said:


> And while you are still putzing across the lot, I'll be shifting into reverse after already stacking my pass up.
> 
> Trust me, I've worked alongside skilled skid steer operators. *Skid steers with 10 ft. snow pushers are nothing compared to an F-350 with a 9.2 in. Boss V-XT blade, not to mention if you throw in wings. *
> While you can get closer and stack better with a skid, *as long as the truck can maneuverer, *a skid is screwed.


hmmmm.....ok


----------



## rob_cook2001

Pinky Demon;965314 said:


> And while you are still putzing across the lot, I'll be shifting into reverse after already stacking my pass up.
> 
> Trust me, I've worked alongside skilled skid steer operators. Skid steers with 10 ft. snow pushers are nothing compared to an F-350 with a 9.2 in. Boss V-XT blade, not to mention if you throw in wings.
> 
> While you can get closer and stack better with a skid, as long as the truck can maneuverer, a skid is screwed.


I agree that a 350 with a 9.2 wings and a good operator is a snow pushing machine. But in a small to medium sized lot, a large 2speed skid with a large plow will run circles around you. In a large lot it will give you a run for your money. 
There are situations where a truck is much better than a skid and many where it's the other way around.


----------



## SuperdutyShane

buckwheat_la;964565 said:


> your b-day, really!!!, ok, i take it back


Haha.

You couldnt even insert the  emoticon?


----------



## Arloslawn

I dont own a skidsteer but I would think that they would be more durable but more costly. I would think a cheap 3/4 ton with a brand new plow would be cheaper. I would only get a skidsteer if i had very very large parking lots malls, etc, because for me I do a couple smaller lots and subdivisions it would be too much to move around. I would love to get 1 though!


----------



## Triple L

Arloslawn;965545 said:


> I would only get a skidsteer if i had very very large parking lots malls, etc,


Except those lots are where a truck would make a skid steer look stupid.....


----------



## rob_cook2001

Triple L;965551 said:


> Except those lots are where a truck would make a skid steer look stupid.....


Maybe if the skid was a single speed or had a bucket :laughing:


----------



## WIPensFan

I've never used a 2-speed skid before, but I would bet the heavier 2-speed machines with a 9-10' blade(not pusher) will go toe to toe with a 1-Ton truck in many open lots. My buddy said his S300 tended to slide sideways in real heavy snow though. So depth and weight of snow will play a role.


----------



## rob_cook2001

WIPensFan;965597 said:


> I've never used a 2-speed skid before, but I would bet the heavier 2-speed machines with a 9-10' blade(not pusher) will go toe to toe with a 1-Ton truck in many open lots. My buddy said his S300 tended to slide sideways in real heavy snow though. So depth and weight of snow will play a role.


My S300 does not have problems sliding until the snow is over 2ft and that is just when I am "opening up" an area. With my 8ft blade I can run neck to neck with trucks running 8-8.5 straight blades. Windrow one way downshift for the turn, turn and windrow the other way. For next year I will be running a 9ft blade with wings and a set of wolf paw tires. I can not wait to see how it does.
Robert


----------



## Pinky Demon

snocrete;965520 said:


> hmmmm.....ok


I only work with a company that pushes open a very, very large shopping complex where two skid steers and two trucks are fielded. The 350 runs circles around the 2 speed Turbo New Holland, but then again, what would I know. I'm only there while you talk out of your ass.


----------



## Pinky Demon

Triple L;965551 said:


> Except those lots are where a truck would make a skid steer look stupid.....


Common sense! Oh happy day!


----------



## cretebaby

Triple L;965551 said:


> Except those lots are where a truck would make a skid steer look stupid.....





Pinky Demon;965622 said:


> I only work with a company that pushes open a very, very large shopping complex where two skid steers and two trucks are fielded. The 350 runs circles around the 2 speed Turbo New Holland, but then again, what would I know. I'm only there while you talk out of your ass.


If the lot is to big for a skid it is to big for a pickup. IMO


----------



## Pinky Demon

rob_cook2001;965578 said:


> Maybe if the skid was a single speed or had a bucket :laughing:


What is the max speed your skid steer can hit in 2nd gear?

EDIT: Never mind, just looked at your stats on Bobcat.com. 12 mph ground speed max in 2nd! :laughing:

GTFO!


----------



## rob_cook2001

My gps show's 12.1mph.


----------



## jomama45

Pinky Demon;964276 said:


> A truck with a V plow or expandable wing plow is more productive.


Let me guess, you own a p/u truck with a V-plow or expandable plow, but you don't own or operate a well equipped skid?

Theres a reason skids subs get paid more 90%+ of the time.


----------



## rob_cook2001

jomama45;965754 said:


> Let me guess, you own a p/u truck with a V-plow or expandable plow, but you don't own or operate a well equipped skid?
> 
> Theres a reason skids subs get paid more 90%+ of the time.


I agree, even though I am one of the 10% that gets paid the same as a truck. I work for a great company but all the other skids they have just run dirt buckets. I don't think they know how productive my machine is.
Robert


----------



## Pinky Demon

jomama45;965754 said:


> Let me guess, you own a p/u truck with a V-plow or expandable plow, but you don't own or operate a well equipped skid?
> 
> Theres a reason skids subs get paid more 90%+ of the time.


No, we own both and I cite observed data while you talk out your ass. Let me guess, you own a skid, but haven't been near a truck in decades?


----------



## jomama45

Pinky Demon;965773 said:


> No, we own both and I cite observed data while you talk out your ass. Let me guess, you own a skid, but haven't been near a truck in decades?


Nice try, but something tells me you're a sub & don't own/operate any skids.

"Observed Data"? Maybe for a small sector of the market where you happen ot be.

BTW, this has been discussed many times before here & I'd tend to believe you're opinion goes agaisnt teh vast majority here.


----------



## cretebaby

Pinky 

How fast are you going when plowing with the truck?


----------



## rob_cook2001

cretebaby;965799 said:


> Pinky
> 
> How fast are you going when plowing with the truck?


48mph But that's with the plow in the scoop position slowing him down. LOL LOL


----------



## cretebaby

SuperdutyShane;966147 said:


> :
> 
> Pinky, do you have a blue F350 for the V-plow?


With one F550 badge.?


----------



## SuperdutyShane

cretebaby;966160 said:


> With one F550 badge.?


And an engine that consumes $28k in one storm 

:laughing:


----------



## snocrete

cretebaby;965629 said:


> If the lot is to big for a skid it is to big for a pickup. IMO


Agreed...I've got data to prove it:laughing:



jomama45;965754 said:


> Let me guess, you own a p/u truck with a V-plow or expandable plow, but you don't own or operate a well equipped skid?


You hit the nail on the head



SuperdutyShane;966147 said:


> Anyone else? QUOTE]
> 
> between 18 - 22 yrs of age, if Stinky tells us any older, it will just make him look worse
> 
> 
> 
> dlcs;966204 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How did I miss that one? Has Deco been reincarnated?:laughing:
> 
> 
> 
> Its starting to appear so.
Click to expand...


----------



## Pinky Demon

A truck will outplow a skid steer in a large lot. I have operated and work along side them. I leave idiots that refuse to see logic in any other position to their ignorance. Have fun loosing money.


----------



## cretebaby

Do you care to answer my question?


----------



## Pinky Demon

cretebaby;967020 said:


> Do you care to answer my question?


Sure. With good conditions, an lot clear of raised manholes, and decently smooth pavement, you can easily hit up to 15 or more.


----------



## rob_cook2001

So your going just a little faster than a 2speed skid, but you can only plow one way correct?? How in the HE!! are you faster than a skid??


----------



## Pennings Garden

care to anwser my question Pinky?


----------



## Pinky Demon

rob_cook2001;967078 said:


> So your going just a little faster than a 2speed skid, but you can only plow one way correct?? How in the HE!! are you faster than a skid??


You can turn around?

You do realize there are situations you can run in continuous circles, right?

Don't assume that every time you make a pass you have to back straight up.


----------



## Pinky Demon

Pennings Garden;967083 said:


> care to anwser my question Pinky?


Which was?


----------



## cretebaby

Pinky Demon;967117 said:


> You can turn around? :laughing:
> 
> You do realize there are situations you can run in continuous circles, right?
> 
> Don't assume that every time you make a pass you have to back straight up.


Sure you can turn around.

But you are going to eat up that extra 3mph real fast.


----------



## SuperdutyShane

cretebaby;967122 said:


> Sure you can turn around.
> 
> But you are going to eat up that extra 3mph real fast.


Wait! What if I backdrag in reverse and go 8mph in my big blue truck with my big red v plow?

Will I run circles around your skid?


----------



## cretebaby

SuperdutyShane;967132 said:


> Wait! What if I backdrag in reverse and go 8mph in my big blue truck with my big red v plow?
> 
> Will I run circles around your skid?


You figure out how to keep your truck out of the ditch then you can comment. :laughing:


----------



## Westhardt Corp.

I think Mr Demon needs to talk about the difference between a 2" event and an 8" event. 2" event, truck will probably win, as you can simply windrow the whole lot at his apparent 38 mph plowing speed. BUT, you start talking 8+", and the truck will only be able to push so much so far. A decent skid will just keep right on pushing, and that's where skids will kill trucks. Add a Kage into the mix...good lord.


----------



## SuperdutyShane

Westhardt Corp.;967308 said:


> I think Mr Demon needs to talk about the difference between a 2" event and an 8" event. 2" event, truck will probably win, as you can simply windrow the whole lot at his apparent 38 mph plowing speed. BUT, you start talking 8+", and the truck will only be able to push so much so far. A decent skid will just keep right on pushing, and that's where skids will kill trucks. Add a Kage into the mix...good lord.


Dont bother, youre arguing with a wall. We could provide thousands of facts to prove him wrong and he would be stuck on his opinion..


----------



## SuperdutyShane

cretebaby;967137 said:


> You figure out how to keep your truck out of the ditch then you can comment. :laughing:


Dont be mean like Palmer. Hes a bad influence 

And it wasnt my fault... It was slippery, I couldnt see, I.... I.......


----------



## Pinky Demon

Westhardt Corp.;967308 said:


> I think Mr Demon needs to talk about the difference between a 2" event and an 8" event. 2" event, truck will probably win, as you can simply windrow the whole lot at his apparent 38 mph plowing speed. BUT, you start talking 8+", and the truck will only be able to push so much so far. A decent skid will just keep right on pushing, and that's where skids will kill trucks. Add a Kage into the mix...good lord.


At 8", let's be honest, everything starts slowing down. You are also assuming the skid can get traction while pushing that heavy load, which quite often, even with excellent tires, can sometimes become a problem. When it comes to pushing the stuff up into pretty little piles though, skid wins hands down. And again, please note, you don't always have to windrow with a plow. I am arguing a good truck with a big V plow or expandable wing.

BTW, thank you mods for whoever deleted that stupid youtube clip. I thought I was on a board with people interested in sharing advice and debating different things, not acting like idiots and discrediting others because they don't agree.


----------



## SuperdutyShane

Pinky Demon;967364 said:


> I thought I was on a board with people interested in sharing advice and debating different things, not acting like idiots and discrediting others because they don't agree.


Youre here. We just get bored when there is no snow... Like to have a little fun


----------



## Pinky Demon

SuperdutyShane;967359 said:


> Dont bother, youre arguing with a wall. We could provide thousands of facts to prove him wrong and he would be stuck on his opinion..


I think its hilarious how so many of you only have one or the other, have never worked clearing a huge shopping center or large open property, certainly not alongside a truck or a skid. Yet here you all sit, keyboard warriors behind a wall of ambiguity, running your mouth till the cows come home. If there is anybody open minded on this forum without their heads up their asses, you can PM and we can further debate. Meanwhile, I'll sit back and laugh at your holier-than-thou know everything attitudes and watch you lose money.

A truck with a large v or expandable wing plow can and will outpace a skid steer in a large, open lot. A truck can turn around or make a complete circle, it's not just forward and reverse. Sorry. And I will give Westhardt credit, it is possible a skid might do better in high snow conditions, but again, will be limited by traction. And stacking, hands down skids stack better, not debating that.


----------



## diggerman

50 percent of the answer to this question is operator, 50 percent is traction availibility. I started running skidsteer plowing snow in a commercial setting when I was 13 (case 1845a with bucket), now I have the biggest and best Cats money can buy (262 ,289, with 11ft reversable plows) so I can crank out some serious snow, but two snows ago we had so much ice I could barely turn the machine around, finally gave up got my pickup to finish the job and it worked great. So unless the operator knows what they are doing they can not achive higher productivity with a skidloader and even an experienced operator can't do well with out good traction.


----------



## buckwheat_la

diggerman;967377 said:


> 50 percent of the answer to this question is operator, 50 percent is traction availibility. I started running skidsteer plowing snow in a commercial setting when I was 13 (case 1845a with bucket), now I have the biggest and best Cats money can buy (262 ,289, with 11ft reversable plows) so I can crank out some serious snow, but two snows ago we had so much ice I could barely turn the machine around, finally gave up got my pickup to finish the job and it worked great. So unless the operator knows what they are doing they can not achive higher productivity with a skidloader and even an experienced operator can't do well with out good traction.


just so i understand this correctly, you had worse traction with your skid then your truck? never had such a problem.


----------



## WIPensFan

buckwheat_la;967384 said:


> just so i understand this correctly, you had worse traction with your skid then your truck? never had such a problem.


Buckwheat, that happens a lot. I can't believe you've never run into that.

You were serious right?


----------



## Westhardt Corp.

Pinky Demon;967364 said:


> At 8", let's be honest, everything starts slowing down. You are also assuming the skid can get traction while pushing that heavy load, which quite often, even with excellent tires, can sometimes become a problem. When it comes to pushing the stuff up into pretty little piles though, skid wins hands down. And again, please note, you don't always have to windrow with a plow. I am arguing a good truck with a big V plow or expandable wing.
> 
> BTW, thank you mods for whoever deleted that stupid youtube clip. I thought I was on a board with people interested in sharing advice and debating different things, not acting like idiots and discrediting others because they don't agree.


Going against the grain, I'm going to say that you have a point. Everything does slow down in an 8" event, but the trucks will feel it more than the skids. This is why I actually like 8' pushers, because I could go clear across a 200' lot without stopping in an S250 with 6"+ on the ground. A truck would have been in trouble just trying to row that all a few times.

Now, I will say that in my experience, V-plows aren't worth the snow they rest on in big lots. I ran a 9' Western straight last year, and ran _windrows_ around the v-plow guys in the same lot. I did the same in the S250 with a 10'...single speed.

Hmph.


----------



## buckwheat_la

WIPensFan;967392 said:


> Buckwheat, that happens a lot. I can't believe you've never run into that.
> 
> You were serious right?


lol, yes and no

yes, i have hit ice and did lots of spinning on ice with the skidsteer, too much torgue on the wheels, and not giving enough time to allow the wheels to grab, jmo

however, if i could count the times, i have went in to a lot that was done with a truck, and scrapped it down, got into tight corners, stacked the snow, and had a happier customer, well lets just say i have never had plow trucks coming behind me cleaning up after me.


----------



## diggerman

I think alot of it has to do with the fact that a pickup is not using wheel speed(or lack there of) in order to turn. Granted end product may look better but its made up for in the mobility of the truck.


----------



## cretebaby

SuperdutyShane;967368 said:


> You're here.


:laughing:LOL

I thought the same thing.


----------



## cretebaby

Pinky Demon;967376 said:


> I think its hilarious how so many of you only have one or the other, have never worked clearing a huge shopping center or large open property, certainly not alongside a truck or a skid.


Hey Cheif! I have run both in a large lot. Just saying



Pinky Demon;967376 said:


> Yet here you all sit, keyboard warriors behind a wall of ambiguity, running your mouth till the cows come home. If there is anybody open minded on this forum without their heads up their asses, you can PM and we can further debate. Meanwhile, I'll sit back and laugh at your holier-than-thou know everything attitudes and *watch you lose money*.


This has to the most ignoramus comment you have made.

Even if you are correct that a truck will out pace a skid, to think that a skid is losing money is just stupid.



Pinky Demon;967376 said:


> A truck with a large v or expandable wing plow can and will outpace a skid steer in a large, open lot. A truck can turn around or make a complete circle, it's not just forward and reverse. Sorry. And I will give Westhardt credit, it is possible a skid might do better in high snow conditions, but again, will be limited by traction. And stacking, hands down skids stack better, not debating that.


The skid will work cicrles around a truck when the truck is sitting in the transmission shop.


----------



## purpleranger519

cretebaby;967553 said:


> The skid will work cicrles around a truck when the truck is sitting in the transmission shop.


Exactly.  Skid Steers are built to take the abuse that plowing brings.


----------



## Pennings Garden

I'm done, a wise old men ones told me to "Pick my battles".....:salute:

To the OP:
There has been some use full info in this thread, take what you think you can use.

To Pinky:
You are making yourself look less then intelligent in multiple threads on this board, I'm not claiming to know everything, that's why I don't comment on every thread; as you can see I only have 150 post in almost 4 years even thou I'm here daily. When I do post it is because I have experience on the topic in more then 1 instance and in more then 1 location, because of that I do not appreciate somebody calling me (or certain other people here) a fool or that I'm talking out of my azz.
I enjoy having a little fun every now and then, but don't like it when people get arrogant, we have some of the largest snow contractors in the US and Canada on this board and funny enough they are never anything but respect full (with a joke every now and then...)


----------



## xtreem3d

Westhardt Corp.;967308 said:


> I think Mr Demon needs to talk about the difference between a 2" event and an 8" event. 2" event, truck will probably win, as you can simply windrow the whole lot at his apparent 38 mph plowing speed. BUT, you start talking 8+", and the truck will only be able to push so much so far. A decent skid will just keep right on pushing, and that's where skids will kill trucks. Add a Kage into the mix...good lord.


are you running Kages?


----------



## jomama45

Pinky Demon;965773 said:


> No, *we own both *and I cite observed data while you talk out your ass. Let me guess, you own a skid, but haven't been near a truck in decades?


It's a shame you had to get so nasty & get the post deleted where you admitted you don't own this eqipment. Thats where you started to lose all credability.



Pinky Demon;967004 said:


> A truck will outplow a skid steer in a large lot. I have operated and work along side them. I leave idiots that refuse to see logic in any other position to their ignorance. Have fun loosing money.


In my experiences & "observed data", a lot that's too big for a skid is too big for a p/u truck as well. There is equipment out there that is much better suited for these lots, that is, if you're really looking to make a profit.



Pinky Demon;967364 said:


> At 8", let's be honest, everything starts slowing down. You are also assuming the skid can get traction while pushing that heavy load, which quite often, even with excellent tires, can sometimes become a problem. When it comes to pushing the stuff up into pretty little piles though, skid wins hands down. And again, please note, you don't always have to windrow with a plow.
> 
> How else do YOU plow snow on a big lot like this w/o windrowing? See below:
> 
> 
> 
> Pinky Demon;961098 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have a Western 7' 6" poly full trip now, and on my poly, I notice that it does sometimes trip, especially when you have some real icy snow. That said, I like it, it saves my truck suspension. Only way I would get a trip edge is if it came standard on a plow, like the MVP+.
> 
> 
> 
> I am arguing a good truck with a big V plow or expandable wing.
> 
> BTW, thank you mods for whoever deleted that stupid youtube clip. I thought I was on a board with people interested in sharing advice and debating different things, not acting like idiots and discrediting others because they don't agree.
Click to expand...




Pinky Demon;967376 said:


> I think its hilarious how so many of you only have one or the other, have never worked clearing a huge shopping center or large open property, certainly not alongside a truck or a skid.
> 
> I think you're taking a huge leap here, do you really think nobody here owns a truck w/ a plow? Off the top of my head, I can only count a few that posted in this thread that don't have both, with YOU being at the forefront.
> 
> Yet here you all sit, keyboard warriors behind a wall of ambiguity, running your mouth till the cows come home. If there is anybody open minded on this forum without their heads up their asses, you can PM and we can further debate. Meanwhile, I'll sit back and laugh at your holier-than-thou know everything attitudes and watch you lose money.
> 
> A truck with a large v or expandable wing plow can and will outpace a skid steer in a large, open lot. A truck can turn around or make a complete circle,
> 
> Please don't say the skids are stacking all the snow your pushing while driving around in circles. If you're not putting the truck in reverse, you're not stacking the snow, or finishing the job obviously. Someone else must be finishing ot for you?
> 
> it's not just forward and reverse. Sorry. And I will give Westhardt credit, it is possible a skid might do better in high snow conditions, but again, will be limited by traction. And stacking, hands down skids stack better, not debating that.


Look Pinky, most of us here have been around here & the industry long enough to see through BS. We didn't all fall off the turnip wagon yesterday. If you really think that none of us, or any of us for that matter, has run a p/u truck w/ a v-plow, I think you may be the one who's ignorant. There's a reason we make an investment in equipping a skid CORRECTLY. It isn't just for "camera candy". Many of us on here benefit from productivity made from any & all equip. we own, we don't all get paid by the hour.

BTW, everything in red could be considered as name calling IMO. It seems your the type of guy (maybe kid?) that resorts to this kind of thing when you know you're wrong & then you cry that others are calling you names! :crying:

Good luck here...............


----------



## Westhardt Corp.

xtreem3d;967613 said:


> are you running Kages?


I had the opportunity to use a friend's just to try it out for a few minutes..._wow._

So, not yet..


----------



## rob_cook2001

I guess I don't know what I am talking about either. I just run my skid in small lots like this one....


----------



## Westhardt Corp.

So....who provides _your_ insurance?

:laughing:


----------



## NW Snow Removal

My recent experience . 4 years ago On one my bigger lots,a 15 acre grocery store strip malI, we used to use 2 duallys with 10 ft plows and 1 skid with a 8 foot avalanche box. with 3 very good drivers with multiple years experience and they would finish in about 4 1/2 hours. The avalanche box used to get really full of heavy wet snow and traction was a minor issue with the s250, but it still worked better in overall performance than a truck in a large lot. Fast forward to last year- I got new pushers 2 - 10 ft arctic sectional plows that allows the weight of the pusher to sit on the pavement and leaves all the torque of the machine locked on the ground and I never have the front 2 wheels off the ground when pushing all 4x4. So I have now 2 machines with 10 ft sectional pushers on that lot doing the work of what 2 trucks and one 8ft pusher in 3 hours total. In bigger lots machines rule and trucks drool. If you have to run the lanes of a bigger plaza during continuous snowfall My skids can do in one pass what takes a truck 4 passes. However, If you have a bunch of small lots like I do (less than 3 acres) and they are miles away , then trucks rule. hence, why I have so many more trucks in my fleet. We're getting more competitive on the bigger lots, because machines with sectional plows clear snow remarkably better than a truck in lots bigger than 3 acres.


----------



## NW Snow Removal

NW Snow Removal;967867 said:


> My recent experience . 4 years ago On one my bigger lots,a 15 acre grocery store strip malI, we used to use 2 duallys with 10 ft plows and 1 skid with a 8 foot avalanche box. with 3 very good drivers with multiple years experience and they would finish in about 4 1/2 hours. The avalanche box used to get really full of heavy wet snow and traction was a minor issue with the s250, but it still worked better in overall performance than a truck in a large lot. Fast forward to last year- I got new pushers 2 - 10 ft arctic sectional plows that allows the weight of the pusher to sit on the pavement and leaves all the torque of the machine locked on the ground and I never have the front 2 wheels off the ground when pushing all 4x4. So I have now 2 machines with 10 ft sectional pushers on that lot doing the work of what 2 trucks and one 8ft pusher in 3 hours total. In bigger lots machines rule and trucks drool. If you have to run the lanes of a bigger plaza during continuous snowfall My skids can do in one pass what takes a truck 4 passes. However, If you have a bunch of small lots like I do (less than 3 acres) and they are miles away , then trucks rule. hence, why I have so many more trucks in my fleet. We're getting more competitive on the bigger lots, because machines with sectional plows clear snow remarkably better than a truck in lots bigger than 3 acres.


I can't believe OP and his denial of these facts of the industry.



rob_cook2001;967761 said:


> I guess I don't know what I am talking about either. I just run my skid in small lots like this one....


I'd like to see the truck compete with a skid running the lanes during a daytime snowstorm when that lot is full of cars. with equally skilled operators I'd guarantee the skid would out perform a truck with a v - plow.


----------



## SuperdutyShane

Hmm, Ill add that I do not own a skid. However I have ran a skid with a 10ft blade on it at a dump, also ran a 1 ton w/ a v at that same place.

There really seems to be no true answer to the question. I myself would actually prefer the skidsteer judging by my experience with it. They are a pretty quick machine so as far as cutting time down with a truck, going the same speed as a skid, something is going to break on the truck before something breaks on the skidsteer...


----------



## WIPensFan

I think this thread is horribly off track. The original question was small to medium commercial lots. Plus he was asking about a pusher being more productive. The bigger the places you guys keep putting up here, the farther away we are from helping answer his true question. This guy is probably a 1-2 man operation, he doesn't need to know what's more productive on a 30+ acre lot!


----------



## Matt400

WIPensFan;967911 said:


> I think this thread is horribly off track. The original question was small to medium commercial lots. Plus he was asking about a pusher being more productive.


Good call.. I been trying to follow it with interest. 
Maybe the skid steer owners could say how heavy they are for a fair comparison?


----------



## jomama45

WIPensFan;967911 said:


> I think this thread is horribly off track. The original question was small to medium commercial lots. Plus he was asking about a pusher being more productive. The bigger the places you guys keep putting up here, the farther away we are from helping answer his true question. This guy is probably a 1-2 man operation, he doesn't need to know what's more productive on a 30+ acre lot!


Who are you to point fingers about taking a thread off track? :laughing::waving:



Matt400;967948 said:


> Good call.. I been trying to follow it with interest.
> Maybe the skid steer owners could say how heavy they are for a fair comparison?


Personally, I go about 200#'s, maybe a little heavier in winter. I'm not sure how much this has to do with the topic at hand though? 

j/k now I'll try to compose a post with more info with my expeiences.........................


----------



## SuperdutyShane

Matt400;967948 said:


> Good call.. I been trying to follow it with interest.
> Maybe the skid steer owners could say how heavy they are for a fair comparison?


Now why would that help?


----------



## rob_cook2001

My S300 with plow is a little under 9500 lbs


----------



## rob_cook2001

SuperdutyShane;967961 said:


> Now why would that help?


I have no Idea but I figured that I would be nice LOL


----------



## SuperdutyShane

rob_cook2001;967963 said:


> I have no Idea but I figured that I would be nice LOL


Haha. Well one of us has to be.. :laughing:


----------



## WIPensFan

jomama45;967960 said:


> Who are you to point fingers about taking a thread off track? :laughing::waving:
> 
> Personally, I go about 200#'s, maybe a little heavier in winter. I'm not sure how much this has to do with the topic at hand though?
> 
> j/k now I'll try to compose a post with more info with my expeiences.........................


I Try to stay on track, sometimes people piss me off and I can't help it.... Now look what you did!!


----------



## Westhardt Corp.

In trying to keep with the "topic", I would say that based on my experience you should have at least one skid/pusher and one truck/9' blade dedicated to your average 3acre lot, with helpers to come in as needed. It worked very well for us, but in the smaller 1-2 acre lots a truck alone was sufficient. Once you get past 3 acres, you should have room for 3 yard machines at minimum, with maybe a skid for detail and an ATV for walks (even on smaller stuff with lots of walks--screw the 4x labor).

Or, you can bid it with one truck & a 7.5' and make some _real_ money.

:laughing:


----------



## jomama45

WARNING!!!!! Following views, advice & opinions in this post are just that, and shouldn't be mistaken for anything else. If you don't agree with them, too bad, feel free to add your own experiences.

86 250, Here goes:

8' pusher vs. 8' plow:

IMO, the pusher is going to be more productive on most sites. Far more capacity, especially important IF you decide to go with a single speed machine. No hydraulics or moving parts = less to go wrong & break.

Cons to the pusher are slower backdragging (even w/ a backdrag option) and most boxes don't scrape as well as plows for 2 reasons: rubber edges are the norm, they don't articulate near as well as a plow (ie: follow a less than perfect surface), & boxes work on 3 dimensions vs, the 2 dim. of a plow. Forgot to mention that MOST boxes are harder to keep flat on the ground compared to a plow, which in turn wears the rubber & shoes prematurely as well as drags momentum from the machine. All of these cons can be addressed by spending more money on a better designed box though.

Plow pros : fast to operate & set down, good vision, excellent on long, narrow pushes, can be widened with wings fairly easy & cheap, stack higher (because the blade is 3-4' ahead of the machine) if you need to, faster at backdraging, can "sweep" snow out of corners better resulting in far less backdragging, I can't remember any more right now, etc.... :laughing:

Cons: even with wings, you won't get close to the same amount of carrying capacity as a pusher, hydraulics, hoses, pivot points, cylinders that CAN break, mid-day clearing between vehicles will take much longer, etc....

1 speed vs. 2 speed:

A 2 speed machine can be switched down into low speed if needed, but the same can't be said the other way around The only benefit I can think of for a 1 speed is that they are generally cheaper. When it comes to snow, time is money. The more ground you can cover during a given time frame of a storm = the more potential to make money period. I ran 2 different 1 speeds years ago, & would never go back. A single speed w/ a plow is an extremely inefficient means of moving snow IMO. You will rarely, if ever, even get the snow to roll, it just slides across the blade. This is why if you feel compelled to buy a 1 speed, I would suggest a pusher. BTW, I still put my machine in low ocaissionally for an extremely heavy push (& nostalgia purposes), & I can tell you I don't miss 1 speed machines one bit. As a matter of fact, I'd say you'd be hard pressed to find someone that went from a 2 speed machine to a 1 speed machine for anything other than cost savings, or possibly because they wanted a small machine that didn't come in 2 speed.
All in all, it's your money, I only you can decide how to spend it. I would at least keep an open mind when looking into machines & don't look past the 2 speed to save a little cash w/o considering it.

Skid vs. truck:

IMO, one of each is a great combo depending on your lots. Smaller cut-up lots, almost any skid will be more efficient than a truck. Medium, open lots, say 1+ acres, a larger skid with 2 speed, great tires, a well matched box or plow will outperform most any p/u truck. And you won't have to abuse it to do so. Cons of the skid: travel between lots, less ability to spread salt, sand, etc..., louder to operate, you can't bring your GF with (the Pro is that your wife can't come w/ either tho), etc.....

The huge lots I'm gonna leave alone, as I think you need to use them as an aid to larger equipment or split them up into medium size lots.

Brand A vs. Brand B vs. Brand C vs. etc.....

I could care less what you buy personally. Everyone has their own opinion &/or personal experiences, and that's all they are is opinions. Any thing from the last 10-15 years made by a major equip. manu. is close enough IMO. Try a few out to see what best fit's your needs, as well as dealer support, parts availability, etc.... The things all have an engine, 4 tires & hydraulics. Some engine series are better than others, but none are junk, tires are a major factor in snow work (lots of threads here about this) & the hydraulics aren't much of a deciding factor in snow removal.

Here's one suggestion on what to look for in your first set-up:

- 1800#+ rated machine w/ 2 speed.
- Factory heater & cab.
- 50+ horsepower.
- 6000#'s + operating weight.
- Now find an old conventional plow, fab it on to a quick attatch plate, have four hoses made along with installing a cross over relief valve & flow restrictors. Now you can have a cheap plow to get going with less than $1K invested in many cases. If the plow doesn't work the best for your situation, you can look into another set-up. I've got a few mounted like this to accept either an old Western conventional as well as a Uni-mount blade, so one Uni can be a spare for a skid as well as 2 other pick-ups. There are a few threads on here to show how these are fabbed together.

Good Luck.


----------



## NW Snow Removal

WIPensFan;967911 said:


> I think this thread is horribly off track. The original question was small to medium commercial lots. Plus he was asking about a pusher being more productive. The bigger the places you guys keep putting up here, the farther away we are from helping answer his true question. This guy is probably a 1-2 man operation, he doesn't need to know what's more productive on a 30+ acre lot!


If you think a skid steer is effective on small commercial lots than I see your problem. of course a truck is better on a bunch of small lots.


----------



## WIPensFan

NW Snow Removal;968051 said:


> If you think a skid steer is effective on small commercial lots than I see your problem. of course a truck is better on a bunch of small lots.


 What?


----------



## cretebaby

NW Snow Removal;967867 said:


> My recent experience . 4 years ago On one my bigger lots,a 15 acre grocery store strip malI, we used to use 2 duallys with 10 ft plows and 1 skid with a 8 foot avalanche box. with 3 very good drivers with multiple years experience and they would finish in about 4 1/2 hours. The avalanche box used to get really full of heavy wet snow and traction was a minor issue with the s250, but it still worked better in overall performance than a truck in a large lot. Fast forward to last year- I got new pushers 2 - 10 ft arctic sectional plows that allows the weight of the pusher to sit on the pavement and leaves all the torque of the machine locked on the ground and I never have the front 2 wheels off the ground when pushing all 4x4. So I have now 2 machines with 10 ft sectional pushers on that lot doing the work of what 2 trucks and one 8ft pusher in 3 hours total. In *parking *lots machines rule and trucks drool. If you have to run the lanes of a bigger plaza during continuous snowfall My skids can do in one pass what takes a truck 4 passes. However, If you have a bunch of small lots like I do (less than 3 acres) and they are miles away , then trucks rule. hence, why I have so many more trucks in my fleet. We're getting more competitive on the bigger lots, because machines with sectional plows clear snow remarkably better than a truck in lots bigger than 3 acres.


Fixed it for you.


----------



## cretebaby

jomama45;967960 said:


> Personally, I go about 200#'s, maybe a little heavier in winter. I'm not sure how much this has to do with the topic at hand though?


I'm about 215#

:laughing:


----------



## cretebaby

NW Snow Removal;968051 said:


> If you think a skid steer is effective on small commercial lots than I see your problem. of course a truck is better on a bunch of small lots.


How can you write a paragraph long post that makes perfect sense, then come back with a one liner that makes no sense at all? 

Tight lots are where a skiddy will really shine, especially when they are within driving distance of each other like the OP's.


----------



## SuperdutyShane

JoMama- What is your snow removal company name?


----------



## cretebaby

SuperdutyShane;968104 said:


> JoMama- What is your snow removal company name?


Jomama Snow Removal


----------



## Westhardt Corp.

:laughing:


----------



## NW Snow Removal

cretebaby;968095 said:


> How can you write a paragraph long post that makes perfect sense, then come back with a one liner that makes no sense at all?
> 
> Tight lots are where a skiddy will really shine, especially when they are within driving distance of each other like the OP's.


I was referring to average smaller lots . not necessarily tight lots sorry. I guess I should have been more specific. In my original post I covered it. sorry for the confusion. I think there is a perfect machine for every job and as a contractor it's up to us to find the perfect combination to suit our job. It's when you try and accomplish the job with the wrong equip that makes you look bad and/or over work your truck. a machine is made to be over worked in snow. IMO.


----------



## purpleranger519

cretebaby;968105 said:


> Jomama Snow Removal


:laughing:....:laughing:......:laughing:..


----------



## jomama45

cretebaby;968105 said:


> Jomama Snow Removal


Damn Scott, you know better!!!

I changed the name to Jomama Snow Removal & Wholesale Liquor, LLP. I thought at least YOU would remember that after the last delivery I sent your way!!!! 

In all seriousness Shane, I'm in the Federal Witness Protection Program, so as much as I'd like to, I can't disclose much.

PM sent.


----------



## SuperdutyShane

jomama45;968713 said:


> Damn Scott, you know better!!!
> 
> I changed the name to Jomama Snow Removal & Wholesale Liquor, LLP. I thought at least YOU would remember that after the last delivery I sent your way!!!!
> 
> In all seriousness Shane, I'm in the Federal Witness Protection Program, so as much as I'd like to, I can't disclose much.
> 
> PM sent.


Haha. Ill look for it. The only reason I asked is because I saw some videos on Youtube of a company with Bobcats with Westerns on them and I was wondering if it was you. :salute:


----------



## jomama45

SuperdutyShane;968733 said:


> Haha. Ill look for it. The only reason I asked is because I saw some videos on Youtube of a company with Bobcats with Westerns on them and I was wondering if it was you. :salute:


Not me Shane, I'm on my own when it snows & would be hard pressed to get someone to take video for me. I should clarify, my Western now sits at home as a back-up & only clears my own yard. Our skids carry 1 home-made blade (with some Western influence), 2 FFC's, & 1 Pro-Tech pusher. All our trucks except one carry Western plows though.


----------



## cretebaby

jomama45;968713 said:


> Damn Scott, you know better!!!
> 
> I changed the name to Jomama Snow Removal & Wholesale Liquor, LLP. I thought at least YOU would remember that after the last delivery I sent your way!!!!


I must have been drunk.


----------



## Matt400

Ok, guess I should have clarified how heavy their *machines* are. I just assumed we were talking about equipment differences but fun to know how heavy your asses are too!


----------

