# Heated Wiper Fluid



## Second Nature (Nov 23, 2011)

I'll apologize in advance if this topic has recently been covered:

I know that GM used to offer heated wwf as part of an option package on better vehicles. They stopped it and have never resumed up to this time, though it's likely in the works for a future year-class. While researching this topic, I learned of a company in snow country (Michigan) named AlphaTherm which manufactures the newest generation of wwf heaters. I did a bunch of checking over the past few days, and I could find NO negative comments or reviews on their heater...the AT-38OD. The hookup is totally dumb-simple...even I can do it...and the videos I've seen prove this.

The heater emits heated wwf...on demand... in the range of 150 degrees after 30 seconds of engine operation and electrical voltage reaching at least 12.9v. The benefits as I see them are obvious. I ran down all the possible concerns, and I think the company has addressed them very well. After several emails to the company and very informative responses, I ordered one to try, and I consider the price to be extremely affordable. If I like it, I'm going to outfit every vehicle in the fleet...plus personal vehicles. I'll keep you posted on the install and operation.

I considered posting a link, prices and pictures, but didn't want to look like a sales rep. Thanks.

Feedback or additional knowledge out there?


----------



## G.Landscape (Oct 20, 2011)

I watch their videos, seems pointless to me. I could have scraped the window with an ice scraper in 30 seconds and been done. Also the test with the heated windshield was bull..... if they had used the wipers like they were in the heated fluid side it would have cleared just as quick.


----------



## plowin-fire (Jan 31, 2011)

Someone on here mentioned a while back to re-route your washer hose around the heater hose a bunch of times. Obviously wouldnt work until engine is up to temp, but for $5 of extra washer hose it wont hurt.


----------



## mnglocker (Dec 24, 2008)

GM quit offering the option when the option started on fire a few times.


----------



## Second Nature (Nov 23, 2011)

mnglocker;1376064 said:


> GM quit offering the option when the option started on fire a few times.


Correct. They ultimately blamed the heating unit at the time ('07.5 - '08) and just disabled/removed the units. No re-engineering happened and the option was dropped.

The technology never disappeared though, and the "issues" were addressed in time. The GM unit required switch-activation through the harness. The AT-38OD is not switched: it senses fluid temp inside the unit and keeps it warm for immediate use.

My interest is not for the convenience of never having to scrape a windshield. It's more in line with deicing glass and blades during frozen precip, and eliminating blow-back snow freeze-up on the windshield. The advantages of using a warm fluid for cleaning/debris removal are self-explanatory.


----------



## theholycow (Nov 29, 2002)

Spray 150°F liquid on a 0°F windshield? No thanks.










I'll just spray some good unheated de-icer fluid when I'm too lazy/busy to stop and scrape.


----------



## Second Nature (Nov 23, 2011)

*"Spray 150°F liquid on a 0°F windshield? No thanks."*

I hear you. I thought that too, but windshields are made of thermally stabilized glass. It's a federal mandate. I've driven my cold vehicles into a steaming car wash and no issues. I did the research, and you'll see "I've heard of windshields shattering"...but I couldn't find a single documented case where a warm washer fluid resulted in a cracked windshield. Logic also told me that GM (and others) would never let this go unchecked. A shattered windshield at speed would be catastrophic.

I guess nothing is perfect however.


----------



## theholycow (Nov 29, 2002)

GM wasn't willing to warranty my windshield when I cranked the defroster to melt off the ice, came back in a half hour, barely touched it with my scraper, and it cracked. They said thermal shock was to blame. I said pretty much what you said...didn't help.


----------



## dlcs (Sep 2, 2004)

My wifes 08 Acadia had the heated washer fluid feature. IMO it was the best feature of the suv. GM had to unhook it due to the car fires it created and gave her a $100 check. It was a 4300+ option. Anyway it was really great for removing bugs and deicing the windshield, seemed to work flawlessly for us. Anyway the company who designed the unit went bankrupt after the car fires and thats why they discontinued the feature.


----------



## cubicinches (Oct 19, 2008)

Second Nature;1376018 said:


> I'll apologize in advance if this topic has recently been covered:
> 
> I know that GM used to offer heated wwf as part of an option package on better vehicles. They stopped it and have never resumed up to this time, though it's likely in the works for a future year-class. While researching this topic, I learned of a company in snow country (Michigan) named AlphaTherm which manufactures the newest generation of wwf heaters. I did a bunch of checking over the past few days, and I could find NO negative comments or reviews on their heater...the AT-38OD. The hookup is totally dumb-simple...even I can do it...and the videos I've seen prove this.
> 
> ...


That's great info. I look forward to some feedback on your experience.

I had a 2008 Silverado 2500 LTZ. Heated washer fluid was one of the best features of the whole vehicle... hands down. I never had an issue with it, and it worked flawlessly in a variety of situations... from iced wiper blades, to dried bugs in the summer. It was a truly great option. People who think otherwise, have obviously never tried it. I have a 2011 Silverado 2500 now. This will likely be the last winter on it for me before I trade it, but if GM doesn't offer heated fluid on my next truck, I would seriously consider the system you're referring to here.


----------



## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

dlcs;1376182 said:


> My wifes 08 Acadia had the heated washer fluid feature. IMO it was the best feature of the suv. GM had to unhook it due to the car fires it created and gave her a $100 check. It was a 4300+ option. Anyway it was really great for removing bugs and deicing the windshield, seemed to work flawlessly for us. Anyway the company who designed the unit went bankrupt after the car fires and thats why they discontinued the feature.


You paid $4300 for heated washer fluid? Then accepted a $100 check in exchange for them disabling it?


----------



## jhall22guitar (Dec 11, 2011)

A guy i work with had heated wwf on one of his cars. He said he would never get it again because after using it one day in winter the wwf line melted and leaked causing a small fire or short circuit somehow, Ill see if i can find out which it was.


----------



## Dissociative (Feb 28, 2007)

everyone has had a crack get worse from the hot defogger...i am not buying the no crack claim...to risky


----------



## dlcs (Sep 2, 2004)

2COR517;1376211 said:


> You paid $4300 for heated washer fluid? Then accepted a $100 check in exchange for them disabling it?


Oops, that was a typo, suppose to be $300+ , still I was pissed about only the $100 cause we loved the option.


----------



## cubicinches (Oct 19, 2008)

I got the recall notice on my 2008, stating that they would remove the system amd reimburse me in the amount of $100. I said screw that... I kept using it until I traded the truck in. I'm sure the dealer disbled it after I traded it in, as I'm sure they're required to perform any recalls before they put the vehicle back out on their lot.


----------



## mnglocker (Dec 24, 2008)

I just fill the washer fluid tank with a healthy does of isopropyl alcohol.


----------



## Leanworks (Oct 7, 2009)

mnglocker;1376576 said:


> I just fill the washer fluid tank with a healthy does of isopropyl alcohol.


Me too. Wiper fluid = $4 Methyl = $8 so, mix Thumbs Up50/50 = $6 and a good defroster = no problems.


----------



## FourRLawn (Dec 1, 2011)

my 2008 gmc sierra 3500 HD had it and I loved it one of the best things they did but the dealership disabled it when we took it in for warranty work. Wish they would come out with it again


----------



## theholycow (Nov 29, 2002)

For you guys who want it but can't get it, why not do this?




plowin-fire;1376056 said:


> Someone on here mentioned a while back to re-route your washer hose around the heater hose a bunch of times. Obviously wouldnt work until engine is up to temp, but for $5 of extra washer hose it wont hurt.


Just buy some extra hose, wrap/coil it around the heater hose or one of the radiator hoses, and enjoy. Not perfect but cheap, low-tech, and safe.


----------



## Second Nature (Nov 23, 2011)

Interesting responses, and I appreciate the input. I have sensed 2 schools of thought with regards to heated wwf options: Skepticism/sarcasm....vs those who think it's the berries. I've read a bunch of posts on other forums that go something like this:

"I had it on my (year) truck, but GM disabled it during a service visit. I loved it and never had a bit of trouble with it". 

For all my efforts (searches) I haven't yet been able to dig up anyone who actually suffered loss or damage from their unit. I do know there were issues with the original GM units, and the mfr didn't solve the issue immediately to GM's liking. The plug got pulled, literally and figuratively on the heater option. I believe I read that about 5 incidences of fire or smoke were reported (out of about 1.5 million units) and NHTSA reacted. The original company stopped production, but now they are back with updated improvements...they claim. If I've got this right, the electronics now operate the heater at a lower temperature, and the voltage pull is more moderate. There are 3 elements inside the unit, and they work independently or in combination to heat the fluid. A fully-heated unit emits about 60cc of warmed wwf, (60cc is two ounces) and the unit recycles in about 30 seconds. The aftermarket units work outside the vehicle wiring harness. Again...I'm in no way endorsing the units. I'm going to install one or two on our fleet vehicles and test them this winter. 

Frankly, if these units could put out large amounts of steaming hot water I'd be concerned. It takes lots of voltage to quickly heat lots of water. Lots of steaming hot water on a zero-degree windshield...I think I'd be anxious. My mind tells me that 60cc/2oz of 150 degree water is not a threat. 

I'll receive a couple units this week and keep you posted on the progress!


----------



## dlcs (Sep 2, 2004)

cubicinches;1376396 said:


> I got the recall notice on my 2008, stating that they would remove the system amd reimburse me in the amount of $100. I said screw that... I kept using it until I traded the truck in. I'm sure the dealer disbled it after I traded it in, as I'm sure they're required to perform any recalls before they put the vehicle back out on their lot.


I thought about doing that with my wifes Acadia but....if the vehicle burned to the ground who would be responsible? I could just see my insurance company not covering it because I failed to do a safety recall and GM's out would be all the notices they sent me in the mail. JMO


----------



## cubicinches (Oct 19, 2008)

Second Nature;1376786 said:


> Interesting responses, and I appreciate the input. I have sensed 2 schools of thought with regards to heated wwf options: Skepticism/sarcasm....vs those who think it's the berries. I've read a bunch of posts on other forums that go something like this:
> 
> "I had it on my (year) truck, but GM disabled it during a service visit. I loved it and never had a bit of trouble with it".
> 
> ...


You're right on point with everything you've said. I visited the manufacturer's website, and they give all of the details about the unit, some of which you've included above.

As far as the OEM units...5 incidents of fire out of 1.5 million units. That's why I didn't hesitate to not have the recall performed and have the unit removed. I never lost a minute of sleep worrying about my truck burning up. I worried even less about the warm fluid breaking my cold windshield... as far as I can tell, there were even less incidents of that... like zero out of 1.5 million.

Your thread prompted me to do a little research, and I ordered the AT30 OD unit this morning. Now there will be two of us to share our experiences. Thumbs Up

I found the whole kit on Ebay for $79.99 with free shipping... It costs more than that to leave the house for an hour... Plus,ten minute install... I figured I might as well give it a try. I'll bet it works well.


----------



## dlcs (Sep 2, 2004)

Can you post a link to the one you got, I may just have to pick one up too.


----------



## cubicinches (Oct 19, 2008)

dlcs;1377179 said:


> Can you post a link to the one you got, I may just have to pick one up too.


Here you go:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/260892681887?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

And the manufacturer's website:

http://alphathermusa.com/index.html


----------



## Second Nature (Nov 23, 2011)

I emailed AlphaTherm and communicated with Joe Trubak there. I hit him with some pretty straight questions and had concerns about the use of the system. He never flinched, and he answered every one of my questions in a straightforward manner. I'm one of those guys who is sensitive to *how* something is said, just as much as *what* is said. I only saw signs that pointed toward a solid product and company. The proof however...is still awaiting delivery.


----------



## cubicinches (Oct 19, 2008)

Second Nature;1377295 said:


> I emailed AlphaTherm and communicated with Joe Trubak there. I hit him with some pretty straight questions and had concerns about the use of the system. He never flinched, and he answered every one of my questions in a straightforward manner. I'm one of those guys who is sensitive to *how* something is said, just as much as *what* is said. I only saw signs that pointed toward a solid product and company. The proof however...is still awaiting delivery.


Good to know. From everything I could find, they seem decent.

Sorry... I see in your original post, you didn't want to post the link to their site... I guess I blew that.


----------



## vmj (Nov 17, 2008)

I saw some where on here a heat stick that replaces the fill plug on plows to keep the fluid from freezing up.. (which i dont see how that could be a problem) But how about installing that into the wipper fluid bottle???? Think that will work?


----------



## Italiano67 (Feb 16, 2005)

Not to overstate the obvious but you still have to use the deicer fluid as the fluid can still freeze in the nozzles and outboard lines.


----------



## 350yddr (Sep 16, 2011)

Pretty coincidental, came across your thread this evening after installing the AlphaTherm on my 05 Ford F150 (approx 15 min). Great concept, I'll let you know how it performs this winter. Best of luck to all.


----------



## Leanworks (Oct 7, 2009)

cubicinches;1377289 said:


> Here you go:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/260892681887?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
> 
> ...


Gou!!Thumbs Up

I was mulling this over for a bit today and thought to self that the idea of the added hose wrapped around a heater hose would be alright for a bit but then toyed with the thought of a battery blanket covering the reservoir might also help along with some heat tape. (I operate a semi so this was geared towards that as I also have a high power inverter and travel through a lot of ice fog in the winter.)

I called up my 'team' which is a qualified mech, an ex mechanical wiz from out east, my mad scientist backyard mechanic genius friend and, the local parts supplier in my small town. Gave them the story here and all had some ideas and all eager to try them out but, seen that the link gives a Canadian supplier so, will call them first thing in the morning prior to getting my truck torn apart and rebuilt from the ground up as part of some mad experiment.

Thanks!:bluebounc


----------



## Second Nature (Nov 23, 2011)

Hey *cubicinches*....no big deal really. I just didn't want to show up here and act like my job was to rep their product. I figured most guys could find the company in one minute or less online. Good to see a few people are interested in the heater, and I'm not the only risk-taker around...lol.

*Italiano67*: Definitely correct! The heater is no substitute for using good low-temp wwf. Lines and nozzles could definitely freeze shut while warm fluid waits uselessly below decks. I learned a ling time ago not to "skate" on good quality washer fluid. The heater is just an adjunct to keeping frost, ice, rime, snow and dirty salty spray-back off the glass and wiper blades.


----------



## cubicinches (Oct 19, 2008)

I agree with using the good fluid. I've been using the orange Rain-X stuff. It leaves a film on the windshield so the grime washes off much easier. It costs more to buy, but you use less in the long run.


----------



## theholycow (Nov 29, 2002)

Leanworks;1377766 said:


> I was mulling this over for a bit today and thought to self that the idea of the added hose wrapped around a heater hose would be alright for a bit but then toyed with the thought of a battery blanket covering the reservoir might also help along with some heat tape. (I operate a semi so this was geared towards that as I also have a high power inverter and travel through a lot of ice fog in the winter.)


If you're looking for DIY ideas, how about submersible heaters like those used in fish tanks?


----------



## gasjr4wd (Feb 14, 2010)

We folks that do 4 wheeling in mud with Suzuki Samurais have been wrapping copper tubing around the exhaust manifolds for years. Rubber hose from the tank to the copper, then back to rubber up to the squirters. It clears mud and crap off the flat, flat, flat, windshields great. I think we first just used an old brake line... it was laying around. The flared ends helped.
No extra wiring, nothing fancy. Just warm/hot fluid to make cleaning easier.


----------



## plowinli (Dec 18, 2007)

Don't they use alcohol in wwf and if you heat it will the alcohol evaporate out of the wwf. Just a thought.


----------



## Second Nature (Nov 23, 2011)

plowinli;1379594 said:


> Don't they use alcohol in wwf and if you heat it will the alcohol evaporate out of the wwf. Just a thought.


Logical question. My guess is that just heating the fluid isn't enough to cause instant evaporation of the alcohol component. Maybe over a long period some evap might occur, but this would only happen to the two ounces of wwf inside the heater. It's probably more of a theoretical problem than a real one. I've never heard anyone relate how they had *more* frozen lines or nozzles because of their heater. Just the opposite.


----------



## theholycow (Nov 29, 2002)

If it was open to the air you might evaporate the alcohol a little faster than normal, but it's in a mostly closed system. Don't forget that on a 100° summer day your washer fluid could easily reach 150° in your 200° engine compartment, but it doesn't all evaporate off.


----------



## Dr Who (Dec 16, 2010)

Heard on the radio a local custom shop (mainly over sized crome rims and loud bumping speakers) advertizing heated wiper fluid installed for $92.00 any vehicle, not including the parts of course.

Kinda high and I am not so sure its worth it, me I just use my defroster...


People could do like my Great Grandfather always did, he was full blooded Blackfoot Indian and had no fear and never thought about any consequences.
He would throw boiling water on his windshield in the mornings. Not once did his windshield break and it was about the only part of the truck that was any good from what I can remember, from what I was told he did this all his life with out ever breaking a windshield.

But this is also the man that would look for gas leaks in the house with a match. Match would blow out and he would fix the leak, he was in his mid 90's when he died naturally....

Me, I had one break when I owned a service station, one of my employees were replacing the wipers on a Caravan one cold rainy day and by laying hand on it in the garage. If I were not standing there watching it, I would had never believed it.


----------



## Second Nature (Nov 23, 2011)

Installation Update:

I received the AT-38OD AlphaTherm heater last week, but didn't have time to install it. Today I had my mechanic do the install while I assisted. The truck is my new 2012 GMC 2500 Duramax.

We followed the directions which are easy enough to understand. For a location on this truck, I chose the inside of the driver's fender wall, just beside the fuse box. We simply held the unit in place and drilled pilot holes for screws, then attached the unit. Next, we found the line from the washer tank which supplies the wiper nozzles. We cut it and did the prescribed connections using the additional tubing supplied with the heater.

Note: We were not able to use the provided barbed push-connectors for the fluid lines. The GM supply line is small in diameter and very rigid. Even with heat, we could not make the connector fit this line. Remarkably, the GM supply line (OD) fit the soft tubing provided (ID) just right. We pushed the smaller line 3/4 inch into the larger, and snugged around it with a small zip-tie. Easy!

After the tube connections were finished, we tested for leaks and found none. We connected the unit's electrical leads to the battery and snugged things up. We then double checked everything in the engine bay near where we worked, and zip-tied a few wires and cables for safety. The install was uncomplicated and looks fine under the hood.

The new unit heated right up after the truck was started, and pumped nice warm fluid within one minute. The unit does NOT get the fluid HOT...nicely warm is the best way to put it, by the time it hits the glass. This is a huge improvement over fluid which is at or below the freezing point and incapable of melting ice or hard frost. A final check, and the job is done.

I now plan to order several more of these units for use in our fleet.


----------



## forbidden (Dec 22, 2010)

My solution.

1) Hook 08 F350 diesel to flatdeck.
2) Load Bobcat on flatdeck.
3) Put Blizzard 810 on front of F350.
4) Drive at or below posted speed limit.
5) Watch heat guage go into overdrive.
6) Press washer fluid and watch it come out as steam. 

This truck has got to go find a new home. Overheats way too easy. Fan clutch (snow plow prep) replaced 4 times now.

I am going to look into these heated resevoirs a little more for our fleet of trucks as well. Please continue to post the results.


----------



## plownit (Jan 10, 2008)

Just installed the AT-38-OD. No problems at all, just had to find a good place for it under the hood of my 08 f-350. The unit is from Alpha Therm that I saw from an earlier post with e-bay thread. Thanks:salute: Will follow with report on how it worksThumbs Up


----------



## tyslawnservice (Feb 10, 2012)

any updates? seems like a good idea... my window and wipers really ice up in the winter


----------



## derekbroerse (Mar 6, 2004)

Does it say anywhere on it how much amperage this thing draws? Wondering about using one on an older truck that doesn't have a huge alternator...


----------



## jasonv (Nov 2, 2012)

Good luck with this, hope your windshield doesn't crack from it. FYI: I *have had* a windshield taken out by a temperature imbalance. Powder snow coming up the hood, heater on full blast hitting the windshield.... POP.

It is not possible to make glass that won't pop from temperature unevenness. Plastic sure. Not glass, or anything else that can crack.

Basically, if you adjust the temperature of the entire glass surface at a constant and controlled rate, it won't break. If you have wildly different temperatures at different regions of the surface, it will create a massive tension in the surface. The greater the temperature difference, the greater the tension and the closer it is to breaking. Hot fluid can and will break a windshield.


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Oh bother.................

I have a heater for my wiper fluid, please don't ask me specific details as it has been 5 years since I installed it. No cracked windshields, either. Sounds like a Mythbusters episode. 

It does reduce buildup on the wipers somewhat. It will not eliminate it. It works great for frosty mornings and I'm leaving for a fire call, but it still fogs up until the glass temp comes up. 

I did it on one truck and will not do it any others, not enough benefit. It was done after the heated wiper craze that is another snake oil scam. I wouldn't call this a total scam, it just doesn't work well enough to justify it.


----------



## basher (Nov 13, 2004)

Mark Oomkes;1659071 said:


> Oh bother.................
> 
> I have a heater for my wiper fluid, please don't ask me specific details as it has been 5 years since I installed it. No cracked windshields, either. Sounds like a Mythbusters episode.
> 
> ...


Maybe you need to turn the thermostat up?


----------



## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

Someone should alert the manufacturers that heating the windshield from the bottom only, inside only, will no longer be acceptable


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

2COR517;1659260 said:


> Someone should alert the manufacturers that heating the windshield from the bottom only, inside only, will no longer be acceptable


You're in the industry, why don't you tell them?

Whilst you're\your at it, you might want to let Mack, MBE and I'm not sure how many other manufacturers that their\they're\there heated windshields are in danger of breaking at any second.


----------



## 2COR517 (Oct 23, 2008)

I don't work for RAM, so I'm not sure if I'm in the industry or not......the criteria changed mid thread


----------



## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

2COR517;1659473 said:


> I don't work for RAM, so I'm not sure if I'm in the industry or not......the criteria changed mid thread


Oops, my mistake.


----------

