# Bidding 900,000 sq ft lot



## LLWorks

Im new here. Recently I've been contacted to draw up a proposal to push a lot. I went to take a look and it's huge. Roughly 900,000 sq ft. It's a warehouse. I have never bid a lot this big. Looking for suggestions. Our average snowfall here is 35". Last year we had an oddball year and had gotten 66.5".


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## leigh

No offense but I would say your in way way over your head if you even have to ask.


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## Antlerart06

20 acres Is a big lot 

If you don't have few loaders I wouldn't bid on that 

If you come on here and asking questions how to bid your over your head

But good luck


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## Gr8WhiteNorth

Bid it per hour or per push with fluctuations in the annual average like that. What do you plan on using for equipment? There is lots of productivity info if you search


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## LLWorks

I suppose I should have been more clear in my question but I'll talk to corporate and see how they prefer the proposal to be written. Ie: charge per inch or per push, break up payment over the quarter or the year... Etc. I have access to wheel loaders to push it off. It's a pretty straight, cut and dry push.


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## Antlerart06

LLWorks;1849199 said:


> I suppose I should have been more clear in my question but I'll talk to corporate and see how they prefer the proposal to be written. Ie: charge per inch or per push, break up payment over the quarter or the year... Etc. I have access to wheel loaders to push it off. It's a pretty straight, cut and dry push.


Say you have a Google earth pic of it To see where you can pile and how far to the pile areas

There is so many factors in bidding a lot this size

Say are those loaders have 14'-16' pushers on them


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## John_DeereGreen

Oh boy...

Best advice is to walk away until you have enough confidence on 5-10 acre lots before you attempt this. It will be quite an expensive lesson when you fail.

For a warehouse, I would have a minimum of a 2.5 yard loader with 16 foot pusher, large frame skid with 10 foot pusher, and a truck dedicated to the account. I'd like to see a Google Earth shot of it before I stuck with those machines. No way I'd consider it on a straight per push payment. Either per push with a retainer, as you're going to have big dollars laid out in equipment rentals, or straight seasonal with blizzard clause as a mulit year contract.

Post up a shot from Google Earth or FindLotSize and we can help you narrow the equipment you need down.


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## Buswell Forest

Michigan seems to be a lower rate area as compared to other places. From what I have read in here the last few years, a large commercial like this ends up being awarded at $100 to $125 per acre plus sand and salt. In Michigan, I would not be surprised to see it go for $90 per acre plus sand and salt.
Good luck.


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## FISHERBOY

plus what national company has that site,? I don't want to see him get screwed.


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## LLWorks

I have access to two wheel loaders w 20' pushers and a single axle w 10' western on it. I've pushed lots of equal size and bigger but on my own dime I wanted to ensure my pricing was correct. Turns out the address was for a corporate mailing and did not need to be rebid. Next year the bid is up so I have some time to figure it out. For this season, they only are looking to have two smaller 1-5 acre lots done. Thanks for the input.


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## Mark Oomkes

What's wrong with $125 per acre?

Unless it's a total pita, that's less than an hour's work.

I've done 8-10 acre lots in 2-3 hours. With a truck. Wide open.


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## LapeerLandscape

Buswell Forest;1851648 said:


> Michigan seems to be a lower rate area as compared to other places. From what I have read in here the last few years, a large commercial like this ends up being awarded at $100 to $125 per acre plus sand and salt. In Michigan, I would not be surprised to see it go for $90 per acre plus sand and salt.
> Good luck.


My rates are so low here in Mich that I have to be sponsored by a homeless child from Africa.


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## Buswell Forest

Mark Oomkes;1852413 said:


> What's wrong with $125 per acre?
> 
> Unless it's a total pita, that's less than an hour's work.
> 
> I've done 8-10 acre lots in 2-3 hours. With a truck. Wide open.


There is nothing wrong with $100 to $125 per acre as long as you can move snow at an acre an hour or less. I should have said in general, as large lots across the snow belt seem to be done for a lot less than their size would imply. Usually because they are done with earth moving equipment, therfore, they get pushed at 1.5 or 2 acres per hour. In general, Michigan rates are lower than most. Must be because of the lake effect and everyone has a plow. I don't know for sure. I do know that a lot I plow for $150 here would be done for $90 there. I have seen it in here enough to be sure of it.


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## Antlerart06

Mark Oomkes;1852413 said:


> What's wrong with $125 per acre?
> 
> Unless it's a total pita, that's less than an hour's work.
> 
> I've done 8-10 acre lots in 2-3 hours. With a truck. Wide open.


You sure that lot wasn't 3-4 
8-10 in 2-3 hrs with one truck 
We will go with 3hr on 10 acres you be clearing a acre in 18 mins There is no way you can with a plow on a truck unless you have a Snow wing on your truck or you driving 30 mph I don't see you doing that


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## Citytow

LLWorks;1849059 said:


> Im new here. Recently I've been contacted to draw up a proposal to push a lot. I went to take a look and it's huge. Roughly 900,000 sq ft. It's a warehouse. I have never bid a lot this big. Looking for suggestions. Our average snowfall here is 35". Last year we had an oddball year and had gotten 66.5".


.021 sq. ft labor /salt up to 6''


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## Mark Oomkes

Antlerart06;1853280 said:


> You sure that lot wasn't 3-4
> 8-10 in 2-3 hrs with one truck
> We will go with 3hr on 10 acres you be clearing a acre in 18 mins There is no way you can with a plow on a truck unless you have a Snow wing on your truck or you driving 30 mph I don't see you doing that


Wide open.

8611 LP and 16' Ebling.

Unless findlotsize.com is wrong.

Plowed and salted a 9 acre lot in 2.5 hours with just an 8611.

That's also why I don't understand why you put 2 or 3 trucks on small lots.


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## Antlerart06

Mark Oomkes;1853327 said:


> Wide open.
> 
> 8611 LP and 16' Ebling.
> 
> Unless findlotsize.com is wrong.
> 
> Plowed and salted a 9 acre lot in 2.5 hours with just an 8611.
> 
> That's also why I don't understand why you put 2 or 3 trucks on small lots.


post the pic of the lot using the find a lot size I want see if you figure just the pavement or you figure the property

My 11ft Box pusher don't push that fast it might push 5 acres in 3hrs

Reason I put 3-4 snow rigs in a lot Im in and out in a hour or less and at the next job


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## Mark Oomkes

Antlerart06;1853389 said:


> post the pic of the lot using the find a lot size I want see if you figure just the pavement or you figure the property
> 
> Give me some credit, I am talking strictly pavement.
> 
> My 11ft Box pusher don't push that fast it might push 5 acres in 3hrs
> 
> You may want to use a higher gear.
> 
> Reason I put 3-4 snow rigs in a lot Im in and out in a hour or less and at the next job


Nothing personal, but you folks in Missouri (and maybe a few other locales) need to learn how to plow. Maybe it's the fact that we get 4 or 5 or 6 times as much seat time as you? I don't remember, and I know I looked it up once, but isn't your average snowfall in the 15" range?

We had 116" last year. We had 3 years in a row of over 100". You get pretty good at plowing and figuring out efficient methods of plowing when you go out that much. My dad taught me "radius" plowing 30 years ago, some seem to think it's the neatest thing since sliced bread. Nobody makes money when the plows are in the air or the truck is backing up. Find a way to do as little backing as possible and go to town.

I'm not going to post the location, too many folks in my area on PS. Maybe I'll PM it to you, but you still won't believe me. Trust me, if you're only getting 5 acres out of an 11' pusher in 3 hours, you either need a better operator or learn how to plow. 
Industry average for a pickup with an 8' plow is an acre per hour. You can't double that with an 11' pusher box? Why bother using it then?


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## Antlerart06

Mark Oomkes;1853423 said:


> Nothing personal, but you folks in Missouri (and maybe a few other locales) need to learn how to plow. Maybe it's the fact that we get 4 or 5 or 6 times as much seat time as you? I don't remember, and I know I looked it up once, but isn't your average snowfall in the 15" range?
> 
> We had 116" last year. We had 3 years in a row of over 100". You get pretty good at plowing and figuring out efficient methods of plowing when you go out that much. My dad taught me "radius" plowing 30 years ago, some seem to think it's the neatest thing since sliced bread. Nobody makes money when the plows are in the air or the truck is backing up. Find a way to do as little backing as possible and go to town.
> 
> I'm not going to post the location, too many folks in my area on PS. Maybe I'll PM it to you, but you still won't believe me. Trust me, if you're only getting 5 acres out of an 11' pusher in 3 hours, you either need a better operator or learn how to plow.
> Industry average for a pickup with an 8' plow is an acre per hour. You can't double that with an 11' pusher box? Why bother using it then?


We average at least 1 or 2 15'' blizzard each winter last winter was a big one for us over 60'' of snow most time we are around 35''-40''
Your Snow and my snow is different Yours more dry mine wet and heavy its never powder
You can post a photo with out a address I have done it all time 
I thought the Industry average with a 8ft plow was less it increase when you add wings 
I plow lots where is very little backing up I agree with you on that packing a plow is down time and is a waste

back to plowing 9 acres in 2.5 hrs with a truck even with a 8611 is still hard to believe 
Since every thing I read on here your only one saying you can plow up to 4 acres per hour


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## Mark Oomkes

I'm not saying I can and do plow that fast every time. Not sure I could do it again. 

The point I am trying to make, is that some of the times given when people ask these questions is nuts. And then we get told we're plowing for nothing. But one guy estimates 1-1.5 hours for a job that shouldn't take more than a half hour. If I can get a job done in a half or one third the time and move on to the next job, how or why am I charging nothing? 

Not to mention, 10-15 years ago, in most areas, lots like thEze were all done with trucks and nobody thought twice about it. Now everybody says you have to have a loader or 3.


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## jrs.landscaping

Mark Oomkes;1853546 said:


> I'm not saying I can and do plow that fast every time. Not sure I could do it again.
> 
> The point I am trying to make, is that some of the times given when people ask these questions is nuts. And then we get told we're plowing for nothing. But one guy estimates 1-1.5 hours for a job that shouldn't take more than a half hour.


Another point is some plow 3" of fluff and others 3" of cement. Another regional factor to think about.


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## Defcon 5

The side of the state Mark O is on deals with lake effect snow on a large basis....Lake Effect snow a lot of times is Wet and Heavy.....Trust me when I say this.....He Really knows what he is doing and has a Very successful business to prove it.....I just laugh when some people on here(Citytow and a few others )spew their words like its gospel and they don't have a clue......


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## Citytow

most guys give it away . especially up north . its like here ," i aint got anything to do during the winter and $500 is alot of money" . dam they must live off the fat of the land . like the guys below me in MD. they said they can plow and salt for a fraction of what i charge .

they should know what their service is worth . I sure do . like i say , when the biggy comes it separates the plow jockey from his plow .


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## jrs.landscaping

Defcon 5;1853555 said:


> The side of the state Mark O is on deals with lake effect snow on a large basis....Lake Effect snow a lot of times is Wet and Heavy.....Trust me when I say this.....He Really knows what he is doing and has a Very successful business to prove it.....I just laugh when some people on here(Citytow and a few others )spew their words like its gospel and they don't have a clue......


My comments weren't directed at Mark, I just quoted his comments to bring up a point. No 2 areas/storms will take the same amount of time.

I know Mark knows his stuff and has a successful business, learned a lot from him, especially air brakes


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## Defcon 5

jrs.landscaping;1853562 said:


> My comments weren't directed at Mark, I just quoted his comments to bring up a point. No 2 areas/storms will take the same amount of time.
> 
> I know Mark knows his stuff and has a successful business, learned a lot from him, especially air brakes


I know that Jr.......It's just some of the other posts that are getting to me.....:salute:


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## jrs.landscaping

Defcon 5;1853567 said:


> I know that Jr.......It's just some of the other posts that are getting to me.....:salute:


I Just wanted to clarify I have the utmost respect for him and his posts


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## John_DeereGreen

Mark Oomkes;1853423 said:


> I'm not going to post the location, too many folks in my area on PS. Maybe I'll PM it to you, but you still won't believe me.


Mark, if you don't mind, I'd appreciate the address, or at least a picture in a PM. We are very seriously considering adding Eblings into our fleet for next season and it would be nice to have actual lots they're being used on and the production rates they're achieving.

Thanks!


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## Antlerart06

Mark Oomkes;1853546 said:


> I'm not saying I can and do plow that fast every time. Not sure I could do it again.
> 
> The point I am trying to make, is that some of the times given when people ask these questions is nuts. And then we get told we're plowing for nothing. But one guy estimates 1-1.5 hours for a job that shouldn't take more than a half hour. If I can get a job done in a half or one third the time and move on to the next job, how or why am I charging nothing?
> 
> Not to mention, 10-15 years ago, in most areas, lots like thEze were all done with trucks and nobody thought twice about it. Now everybody says you have to have a loader or 3.


I thought you had a system that I wanted to learn But you are saying you cant do it that fast every time 
I know you are all about efficiency in a lot I am to that's reason I run more then 1 rig in a 2 acre lot or bigger 
But when a person tells me I only need 1 truck and 1 truck can do 9 acres in 2.5 hrs I want to know more 
How many inches?
Show Me a private Photo?
How fast are you plowing?
What is your plan ?
This old dog always want to learn new things that will save $$$

I run V plows with wings So in scoop I'm still wider then your 8611 when you are in scoop
So you have to be going fast and maybe the plan is different from how I do it

So show me How its Done


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## Buswell Forest

Jet engine in the bed (under the flux capacitor)..


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## Maclawnco

Antlerart06;1853629 said:


> I thought you had a system that I wanted to learn But you are saying you cant do it that fast every time
> I know you are all about efficiency in a lot I am to that's reason I run more then 1 rig in a 2 acre lot or bigger
> But when a person tells me I only need 1 truck and 1 truck can do 9 acres in 2.5 hrs I want to know more
> How many inches?
> Show Me a private Photo?
> How fast are you plowing?
> What is your plan ?
> This old dog always want to learn new things that will save $$$
> 
> I run V plows with wings So in scoop I'm still wider then your 8611 when you are in scoop
> So you have to be going fast and maybe the plan is different from how I do it
> 
> So show me How its Done


He already told you no. How many more times are you going to rephrase this question? What are you, 12? Daddy, daddy, puhleeeeeeez?


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## Antlerart06

Maclawnco;1853830 said:


> He already told you no. How many more times are you going to rephrase this question? What are you, 12? Daddy, daddy, puhleeeeeeez?


 add 40 to that 12

He told no on public pic but not on private Sorry trying have some fun on here or learn something new

Wouldn't you ask to if a guy claiming he can plow 9 acres in 2.5 hrs with just a 8611 plow on a truck Just want to learn the facts not the BS


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## snocrete

Antlerart06;1853835 said:


> add 40 to that 12
> 
> He told no on public pic but not on private Sorry trying have some fun on here or* learn something new *
> 
> Wouldn't you ask to if a guy claiming he can plow 9 acres in 2.5 hrs with just a 8611 plow on a truck Just want to learn the facts not the BS


 Then maybe read/study a little bit....instead of posting how you do it in missurrah. I've noticed before how someone has tried to educate you, but you continue to act/post like a 12yr old, and don't seem to want to listen.

Again, he's not gonna hand just anybody info that has taken a lot of time & money to acquire.

BTW, he didnt do it with just a truck & 8611.


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## Mark Oomkes

Actually, thinking back Antler, I did tell you how to plow faster but you were convinced that windrowing is slower than pushing. 

In certain lots, I can guarantee you are flat out wrong.

I forgot we had that convo last year.


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## extremepusher

Its basically like this, make every move you make count. The more the blade is on the ground, faster you are.


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## Citytow

and the beat goes on .....


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## Antlerart06

snocrete;1853860 said:


> BTW, he didnt do it with just a truck & 8611.


That's what he posted was just the 8611 he didn't use his rear plow go back up there and read it again


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## Antlerart06

Mark Oomkes;1853953 said:


> Actually, thinking back Antler, I did tell you how to plow faster but you were convinced that windrowing is slower than pushing.
> 
> In certain lots, I can guarantee you are flat out wrong.
> 
> I forgot we had that convo last year.


LOL 
Sure windrowing is a fast way in certain small lots but in a big lots that windrow gets bigger till a truck cant move it like in a 9 acre lot.
Its not really slower, well it is. You are moving the same snow over and over each time you windrow you have to take a smaller bite. 
Why in big lots it faster to scoop it That's why everybody runs Pushers in big lots 
If windrowing is faster I think a lot people would be running straight plows instead of pushers


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## Antlerart06

Mark Oomkes;1853327 said:


> Wide open.
> 
> 8611 LP and 16' Ebling.
> 
> Unless findlotsize.com is wrong.
> 
> Plowed and salted a 9 acre lot in 2.5 hours with just an 8611.
> 
> That's also why I don't understand why you put 2 or 3 trucks on small lots.


Right there is what he said


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## snocrete

Mark Oomkes;1852413 said:


> What's wrong with $125 per acre?
> 
> Unless it's a total pita, that's less than an hour's work.
> 
> *I've done 8-10 acre lots in 2-3 hours. With a truck. Wide open*.





Antlerart06;1854272 said:


> That's what he posted was just the 8611 he didn't use his rear plow go back up there and read it again


When he said that, he was using the ebling also. Dosent matter, if they don't do it in missurah, its not true.



Antlerart06;1854303 said:


> LOL
> Sure windrowing is a fast way in certain small lots but in a big lots that windrow gets bigger till a truck cant move it like in a 9 acre lot.
> Its not really slower, well it is. You are moving the same snow over and over each time you windrow you have to take a smaller bite.
> Why in big lots it faster to scoop it That's why everybody runs Pushers in big lots
> If windrowing is faster I think a lot people would be running straight plows instead of pushers


dosent the shape of the lot matter?


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## Antlerart06

snocrete;1854315 said:


> When he said that, he was using the ebling also. Dosent matter, if they don't do it in missurah, its not true.
> 
> :


He used the word ((( Just 8611))) Now if he said he used both We wouldn't be talking right now

I seen them rear plows work I wouldn't thought it was BS if he would said he ran both plows


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## Antlerart06

snocrete;1854315 said:


> When he said that, he was using the ebling also. Dosent matter, if they don't do it in missurah, its not true.
> 
> dosent the shape of the lot matter?


What really matters is where you can and can not pile snow


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## Citytow

900,000
x.012
$ 10,800


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## Mark Oomkes

OK, I was wrong on the 9 acre lot in 2.5 hours. My apologies.

Looks like it is around 6.8 acres.

My total time, 1 truck, 1 person, plowing and salting was 2.5 hours. F800 with an 8611 and a 10' Swenson spreader. And that was the POS spreader with an auger that took forever as opposed to the one that I have now with a conveyor that takes 1 day less than forever to empty out. (Electric spreaders suck)

http://www.findlotsize.com/?place=5246+Eastern+Ave+SE+Kentwood&submit=Go&r=e

I don't have this account anymore, so I will post it publicly.

I'll check the other one to make sure my memory is accurate.

Figure a half hour for salting because the spreader was a POS. 20 minutes at the least. Still pushing 3 acres per hour. With a truck. And the majority of the snow has to go to the south end of the lot. I can get rid of a little bit by the islands on the west side by Burger King. 4" of average snow. Not powder and not cement.

Crap, not sure how to make it bigger, but between the link and the little pic attached, you should be able to figure it out.


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## Antlerart06

Mark Oomkes;1854485 said:


> OK, I was wrong on the 9 acre lot in 2.5 hours. My apologies.
> 
> Looks like it is around 6.8 acres.
> 
> My total time, 1 truck, 1 person, plowing and salting was 2.5 hours. F800 with an 8611 and a 10' Swenson spreader. And that was the POS spreader with an auger that took forever as opposed to the one that I have now with a conveyor that takes 1 day less than forever to empty out. (Electric spreaders suck)
> 
> http://www.findlotsize.com/?place=5246+Eastern+Ave+SE+Kentwood&submit=Go&r=e
> 
> I don't have this account anymore, so I will post it publicly.
> 
> I'll check the other one to make sure my memory is accurate.
> 
> Figure a half hour for salting because the spreader was a POS. 20 minutes at the least. Still pushing 3 acres per hour. With a truck. And the majority of the snow has to go to the south end of the lot. I can get rid of a little bit by the islands on the west side by Burger King. 4" of average snow. Not powder and not cement.
> 
> Crap, not sure how to make it bigger, but between the link and the little pic attached, you should be able to figure it out.


Is your F800 a 4x4 model or just a 2wd model

Wasn't type of lot I figure you would post in my mind thinking be a lot where can stack at both ends This one looks like a pain 
Looks like a lot of detail work on this lot to work around for a F800 truck

Thanks for posting 
You say 1 truck for this lot My self I would run 3 a skid a windrowing truck and 11 ft box tractor
Thats if I don't have much time before the store opens middle the night yep I would run 1 maybe 2

Say how many plow rigs you run in your Company


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## Mark Oomkes

I'm small potatoes, 13ish.

2WD.

I kind of knew that, and I think it's ridiculous and IMHO my production rates compared to yours prove it.

BTW, it's an hour and a half lot with a Kubota M125 and a Horst 10-16 snow wing


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