# Fisher Discussion 10/22 - 10/26



## Mike_PS (Feb 28, 2005)

Hello Everyone!

Once again this year, one of our sponsors, Fisher Engineering, will be hosting a discussion here in the snow removal forum. The discussion will begin on *Monday 10/22* and run until *Friday 10/26*. Be sure to read the discussion and feel free to participate. The discussions by Fisher in the past have created some great information and ideas and you can expect the same again this year.


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## Gary Dwinal (Aug 1, 2001)

Michael J. Donovan;417406 said:


> Hello Everyone!
> 
> Once again this year, one of our sponsors, Fisher Engineering, will be hosting a discussion here in the snow removal forum. The discussion will begin on *Monday 10/22* and run until *Friday 10/26*. Be sure to read the discussion and feel free to participate. The discussions by Fisher in the past have created some great information and ideas and you can expect the same again this year.


Hello to all,
Let us all pray for heavy snow this winter! Heck, even a normal winter would be OK. This is the week I always look forward to each year. Getting direct feed back from customers that use our products commercially, is very valuable to our company and we take it very seriously. From now thru Friday, October 26, I will answer any technical or general questions about Fisher Snow and Ice Control products. It is great to be back on the plowsite forum. 
I would also love to hear from you all about any new product ideas. Maybe there are modifications you have made to your equipment that have helped you out. Maybe you have always wished you could buy _______ to help your equipment be more efficient?
Thank you and I look forward to your comments and questions.


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## Flipper (Nov 1, 2001)

Hi Gary.

On last years thread and the one before that etc, I called for a return to lightwieght but commerical duty plows by Fisher. I really want a 7ft trip edge setup. NOT a HOMESTEADER

Your response on page two was basically to say they could not and would not do it because of FAWR standards etc. That the rubber band trip Homesteader was their answer. I question this when I can buy a Blizzard for a Tacoma, Jeep, S10 etc which is now owned by the same company.

Well, I have knocked Meyers in the past but I have been taking a serious look at their new plow as they have answered the call. Since I would go with a different hydraulic system anyway, the only thing I have ever had problems with (MEYER PUMPS) would be eliminated. I have also asked you to offer belt drive hydraulic universal kits. I continue to buy the pieces and install them in new trucks without issue.

http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.p...363#post395363

http://www.meyerproducts.com/distrib...sell_sheet.pdf

Come on Fisher I know you guys can do something here.


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## KenG (Oct 31, 2004)

Welcome back, Gary. Thanks for visiting this site and doing the yearly discussion. It's good to know that user feedback gets heard by someone at the company.

I have no complaints. I commend Fisher for the arrival of new equipment in the past few years. The updated lights, Stainless V-plow, XLS, etc. really let me believe that you do listen to what plowers want.

One question: What brought about the change to Poly for the Xtreme-V instead of PC steel? Just curious.

Ken


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## Gary Dwinal (Aug 1, 2001)

Flipper;417491 said:


> Hi Gary.
> 
> On last years thread and the one before that etc, I called for a return to lightwieght but commerical duty plows by Fisher. I really want a 7ft trip edge setup. NOT a HOMESTEADER
> 
> ...


Hi Flipper,
I think your question is a great question and one we have heard often since acquiring the Blizzard brand. Now that the Blizzard brand is part of our DD family, the installation guidelines have undergone some significant changes. Many of the vehicles that attachments were built for are no longer approved for plow installations. Some of these attachments are still available out in the field, but do not meet the weight criteria to be legitimate and legal snowplow installations. For some of the vehicles that are borderline for having a "lightweight but commercial duty" snowplow installed on them, it then becomes a matter of economics for a manufacturer like us. For a very high percentage of the people plowing with those types of compact or downsized trucks, the plows we are currently offering are very acceptable and work just fine. In most cases, these downsized trucks are simply not suitable or applicable to any type of commercial plowing. Most people that are truly plowing commercially tend to buy larger trucks that are applicable for the larger, more commercial duty snowplow installations. 
I have often said on here, other plow manufacturers continue to offer mounts for vehicles that when plows are installed on, do not even come close to meeting FMVSS rules and regulations. Said in other words, the vehicles are overloaded on either FGAWR and/or GVWR and are completely illegal and if ever involved in a traffic accident, the owner and or installer can be held liable for injuries or damage. The difference between DD and other plow manufacturers is we "take the high road" on this matter and pass every bit of information we can get our hands on, to our distributors and end users to help clarify what plows can legally be put on what trucks. The E-match program on our web site which is available to all is an excellent resource to see if your vehicle is applicable to the size plow you would like to install on it. Sorry to be so long winded, but this is probably the most sensitive topic in our industry, as vehicle load ratings continue to diminish in favor of passenger car like ride and handling characteristics in "trucks" today.
I will also add that we are continuing to learn more and more about various manufacturing and design techniques. As a result, we may very well be able to design plows that will withstand the types of rigors you are looking for that will be applicable for the downsized trucks in the near future. 
Thanks for your question.


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## mcwlandscaping (Sep 8, 2005)

WELCOME BACK GARY!!!! Hopefully i'll have my plow restoration project done to post up here to have you check out  SEND CPW MY ANGLE RAMS!!! lol

I remember my first year on here before i got my license stating how i knew ide get a fisher for the following season and you talked to me about it, and now going into my second season with my own fisher (9th year plowing with them) i couldn't be happier!!!! It means a lot that you come by here ever year!


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## Gary Dwinal (Aug 1, 2001)

KenG;417570 said:


> Welcome back, Gary. Thanks for visiting this site and doing the yearly discussion. It's good to know that user feedback gets heard by someone at the company.
> 
> I have no complaints. I commend Fisher for the arrival of new equipment in the past few years. The updated lights, Stainless V-plow, XLS, etc. really let me believe that you do listen to what plowers want.
> 
> ...


Hi Ken,
First, thank you for the kind words. We have taken a very strong initiative over the past few years to aggressively pursue what we call VOC (voice of the customer) activities prior to launching any new product designs. All new product development teams that are established will send all or many team members out into the field and talk to both end users as well as people that sell our products. All of this information is then compiled and used in an exercise to build an HOQ (house of quality) which then sets the order of priorities for features and benefits that need to be designed into the new product. It is a very fun process to be involved in and I think the results speak for themselves with some of the new products we have launched over the past few years.
Now to your question. I think you are referring to our XBLADE series of plows. We originally launched them for sale with just the stainless steel moldboard option. Many users liked other features on the plow (more aggressive angle of attack, taller height, etc) but didn't want to pay the premium for the stainless moldboard. That is why we added the powder coated steel option. For those that still like the additional benefits of the more maintenance free stainless but couldn't keep up with the crazy price increases we have all seen in the stainless steel market, we decided to offer the poly moldboard option. In order to keep the number of variations of blade offerings reasonable, we eliminated the powder coated option on the sizes we are offering the poly option on, as the poly option is not a lot more expensive than the powder coated steel option.


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## Gary Dwinal (Aug 1, 2001)

mcwlandscaping;417882 said:


> WELCOME BACK GARY!!!! Hopefully i'll have my plow restoration project done to post up here to have you check out  SEND CPW MY ANGLE RAMS!!! lol
> 
> I remember my first year on here before i got my license stating how i knew ide get a fisher for the following season and you talked to me about it, and now going into my second season with my own fisher (9th year plowing with them) i couldn't be happier!!!! It means a lot that you come by here ever year!


Hi mcwlandscaping,
It is great to be back! Seems like I have become part of this little family on this forum. On the info at the top of your message it says you also plow in Guantonimo Bay, Cuba?? What is the story behind that? Not sure they get any snow there!
I am glad to hear you have chosen Fisher as your brand of choice and you are very satisfied with doing so. I will assure you that we will work hard to keep you as part of our Fisher family. Please send me some photos of your restoration upon completion. Not sure what is going on with getting your cylinders. We currently have no backlog of any service parts that I am aware of.


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## Ryno (Aug 5, 2006)

*8 1/2' poly*

Hi Gary
I dropped my F-350 off at my dealer on Friday to have an 8 1/2' poly X-Blade installed. After they made a few calls they discovered that you are not yet offering that size in poly. Do you have any idea how long it will be before you release the 8 1/2' poly?
Thanks


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## mcwlandscaping (Sep 8, 2005)

Gary Dwinal;417885 said:


> Hi mcwlandscaping,
> It is great to be back! Seems like I have become part of this little family on this forum. On the info at the top of your message it says you also plow in Guantonimo Bay, Cuba?? What is the story behind that? Not sure they get any snow there!
> I am glad to hear you have chosen Fisher as your brand of choice and you are very satisfied with doing so. I will assure you that we will work hard to keep you as part of our Fisher family. Please send me some photos of your restoration upon completion. Not sure what is going on with getting your cylinders. We currently have no backlog of any service parts that I am aware of.


I'll call CPW after school then  If i can't post pics up here of the plow restoration i'll try to send them to you some other way!

As far as the cuba thing, that was something that i believe BNC Services started (or his friend on here that he plows with) and i was asked to participate as well! All in good fun!


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## Gary Dwinal (Aug 1, 2001)

Ryno;417896 said:


> Hi Gary
> I dropped my F-350 off at my dealer on Friday to have an 8 1/2' poly X-Blade installed. After they made a few calls they discovered that you are not yet offering that size in poly. Do you have any idea how long it will be before you release the 8 1/2' poly?
> Thanks


Hi Ryno,
Thank you for purchasing Fisher products. We have not discussed adding the poly moldboard option to the other sizes as of yet. It would be relatively easy to do if we decide to do so, but at the earliest would not happen until next season sometime. We will certainly take your request to so under advisement.


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## mcwlandscaping (Sep 8, 2005)

Hey gary, i copied this from my thread in the fisher section:

The blade and base angle of the plow need one more coat of paint and then it's time to put it all back together!!!!!! I have a few questions first.

1) when putting on the new rams, how do i extend them when i go to put them in as they are new and fully retracted?

2) once everything it hooked up, how do i go about bleeding (for lack of a better term) the sytem? Everything will be empty so do i just fill the resevior, go through all the functions a few times to fill all the lines and cylinders and get the air out, then recheck and add fluid?


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## Gary Dwinal (Aug 1, 2001)

mcwlandscaping;418155 said:


> Hey gary, i copied this from my thread in the fisher section:
> 
> The blade and base angle of the plow need one more coat of paint and then it's time to put it all back together!!!!!! I have a few questions first.
> 
> ...


Hi mcwlandscaping,
1) What I usually do is put a pin or a bar into your bench vise and slide the barrel end onto the pin. Put another pin or bar into the rod end and pull outward on it while twisting back and forth slightly. Slide each ram out about half way thru its travel.

2) Fill the reservoir; if possible jack the truck up so the truck end of the A-frame is higher off the ground than the plow end. This will trap all of the air closer to the hydraulic hose fittings. Without raising the plow, angle the plow back and forth several times. This will get all of the air out of the angle cylinders which is where 95% of the air will come from as the lift cylinder is still retracted and will not contain much air. Re-fill the reservoir again and raise and lower the plow several times. It is best to let the truck set overnight or several hours to let all of the air separate from the oil in the reservoir, and then fill it up again to the full level.

3) Now go out into your yard and make sure none of your neighbors are watching. Perform the best snow dance you know how to do. Repeat if necessary - several times!!!!!!!


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## SnowDozers (Oct 3, 2005)

Gary,

I currently own a Blizzard 810 that I purchased for last season. I noticed that the wings of your new plow use Poly cutting edges to protect from damage. I worry that pushing against curbs with no "real" form of tripping could tweak the wings. I often use my plow now to push snow up over curbs and sometimes it can require a little push to move the frozen snow from previous events. What has testing shown, and have you made sure to do the "proper" testing this time around? (Not going to mention the PolyCaster nightmares.)


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## mkwl (Jan 21, 2005)

Question- I bought a used 2005 Fisher 8'HD MMII plow this past August for my 2003 GMC Sierra 2500HD pickup. IMO Fisher is the best out there! After looking at Westerns, Boss, Curtis, Snoway etc, the Fisher stood out as clearly the best choice! 

Anyhow, now for the question- are Fisher and Western plow hoses and solenoids the same? Reason I ask- I have a western dealer a little closer to me than the Fisher dealer, and wondered if Western hoses/solenoids from Western will fit Fisher. I know Fisher and Western are both owned by Douglas Dynamics, figured maybe they used the same hydraulic hoses and soleniods. Thanks, and thanks for making a GREAT PLOW!


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## Yaz (Apr 13, 2005)

Hi Gary

I have a few ideas to keep your engineering busy. 

Design a bolt on wing kit and back drag blade that is light and inexpensive for your most popular plow blades. Just make it a wear item so you sell new ones every few years. I say be a leader not a follower. Someone is going to do it and you’ll be scrambling to catch up. Next, make the x-blade frame out of aluminum, I run one but I think it would be lighter and better out of aluminum. I belive you would sell a ton more X-Blades to the ½ ton and foreign truck guys. And my final idea.. how about plow horns that are plated or stainless or the plow frame itself have a nylon guides so it doesn’t chip all up and rust. We all know that the powder coat doesn’t hold up there. How about a kit that keeps your tow hooks or some cool new Fisher ones the mount inside the frame that the bracket bolts into. At a minimum put a nice Fisher logo someplace on them, like your competition does.


PS. Send all prototypes to my house for testing.


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## mike33087 (Feb 9, 2005)

YAZ 
i second all of those


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## mcwlandscaping (Sep 8, 2005)

Yaz;418985 said:


> Hi Gary
> 
> I have a few ideas to keep your engineering busy.
> 
> ...


HELL YEA!! lol

i'de love to test them as well!


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## nickv13412 (Nov 9, 2006)

Yaz;418985 said:


> Hi Gary
> 
> I have a few ideas to keep your engineering busy.
> 
> ...


Aluminum would be cool, i just think that there would be some problems with all the steel hardware and other components that have to be used and the aluminum parts corroding each other


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## Camden (Mar 10, 2007)

Gary - Do you plan on having a plow available for the new Dodge 4500/5500 trucks that are going to be available soon? Your counterparts at Boss and Western have dropped the ball and currently have nothing to offer. Very disappointing to say the least.

Additionally, if you ever need someone to demo any of your new products feel free to get in touch with me and we'll chat. I wouldn't expect any form of monetary compensation, I'd be happy just keeping the equipment in return for my professional opinion.

:waving:


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## Gary Dwinal (Aug 1, 2001)

SnowDozers;418736 said:


> Gary,
> 
> I currently own a Blizzard 810 that I purchased for last season. I noticed that the wings of your new plow use Poly cutting edges to protect from damage. I worry that pushing against curbs with no "real" form of tripping could tweak the wings. I often use my plow now to push snow up over curbs and sometimes it can require a little push to move the frozen snow from previous events. What has testing shown, and have you made sure to do the "proper" testing this time around? (Not going to mention the PolyCaster nightmares.)


Hi SnowDozer,
Not sure what you are saying or asking, but I will assume you are unhappy with your Blizzard and are contemplating buying a Fisher XLS plow. The pressure relief system in the XLS hydraulic system will relieve if the wings are moved ahead slightly in a scoop configuration. The polyurethane material will yield if solid obstructions are encountered. The blade will stay upright and carry a full load of snow without tripping forward and dumping the snow load. It has a bottom trip edge like all Fisher plows and just the bottom 6" will trip back and ride up over the obstruction. I will assure you the new XLS plows have been very thoroughly tested by many commercial testers in may different areas of the country last season.

(I won't mention the issues involving the PolyCaster either, where we as a manufacturer stood tall, made apologies to our customers, and did the right thing by sending very expensive upgrade kits at no charge to every customer that purchased one of those units last year)


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## Gary Dwinal (Aug 1, 2001)

mkwl;418789 said:


> Question- I bought a used 2005 Fisher 8'HD MMII plow this past August for my 2003 GMC Sierra 2500HD pickup. IMO Fisher is the best out there! After looking at Westerns, Boss, Curtis, Snoway etc, the Fisher stood out as clearly the best choice!
> 
> Anyhow, now for the question- are Fisher and Western plow hoses and solenoids the same? Reason I ask- I have a western dealer a little closer to me than the Fisher dealer, and wondered if Western hoses/solenoids from Western will fit Fisher. I know Fisher and Western are both owned by Douglas Dynamics, figured maybe they used the same hydraulic hoses and soleniods. Thanks, and thanks for making a GREAT PLOW!


Hi mkwl,
Thank you for the kind words about our products. Now I realize I am may be slightly biased, but I happen to agree with you 110%!!!!

The solenoids are definitely the same. The hoses will be from the same vendors but our plows use some different length hoes than some of the Western plows. If you make sure to get the same length hoses, you should be all set.


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## Gary Dwinal (Aug 1, 2001)

Yaz;418985 said:


> Hi Gary
> 
> I have a few ideas to keep your engineering busy.
> 
> ...


Hi Yaz,
I really like some of your ideas and all will be taken under advisement. Your feedback is the type of stuff that is a real bonus out of being involved in these forums for the week. We are always looking into lighter weight materials to manufacture snowplows from. Like all features, they have to meet the balance between cost and performance. To date the aluminum has always lost on the cost side of the equation. That is not to say that it won't happen some day though. We are constantly learning new and more efficient manufacturing methods that help to offset some of the material costs. I agree with the "scrambling to catch up" as this industry is getting much more competitive with some high tech, and intelligent players. Fisher Engineering has been at the top of this group for many years and we are working hard to stay there. The competition that is now present in the industry has been a good thing as it has forced us to upgrade our entire company from our people, manufacturing plants, and technology, to the new products that we are continuing to develop and offer for sale. 
Thanks again for the great ideas. I really like the idea of a Fisher logo on the remaining mount that stays on the truck. It always impresses me that people are very proud that they own Fisher equipment, and want to have the Fisher name remaining on their truck after removing the plow. We have had many requests of that type since going to the Minute Mount style plows several years back.


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## Gary Dwinal (Aug 1, 2001)

nickv13412;419019 said:


> Aluminum would be cool, i just think that there would be some problems with all the steel hardware and other components that have to be used and the aluminum parts corroding each other


Hi Nick,
There would be some challenges to building plows from aluminum but they would not be insurmountable. We currently manufacture our hydraulic valve blocks from aluminum. There are many different grades of aluminum and there are ways of treating the material to protect it from corrosion. The valve blocks all go thru an anodizing process which protects them from most of the elements they see. Thanks for your support for our products.


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## Gary Dwinal (Aug 1, 2001)

Camden;419020 said:


> Gary - Do you plan on having a plow available for the new Dodge 4500/5500 trucks that are going to be available soon? Your counterparts at Boss and Western have dropped the ball and currently have nothing to offer. Very disappointing to say the least.
> 
> Additionally, if you ever need someone to demo any of your new products feel free to get in touch with me and we'll chat. I wouldn't expect any form of monetary compensation, I'd be happy just keeping the equipment in return for my professional opinion.
> 
> :waving:


Hi Camden,
We will definitely have a mount for those trucks. It is currently under development and will be released for sale soon after those trucks begin shipping to dealers. The same mount will also fit the new Sterling trucks. Keep in touch with your local Fisher outlet.

We appreciate all offers to test new equipment and quite often take advantage of commercial plowers to test our products.


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## mcwlandscaping (Sep 8, 2005)

Hi gary, i sent you a PM! I hope you can get them!!

-mike-


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## Gary Dwinal (Aug 1, 2001)

Camden;419020 said:


> Gary - Do you plan on having a plow available for the new Dodge 4500/5500 trucks that are going to be available soon? Your counterparts at Boss and Western have dropped the ball and currently have nothing to offer. Very disappointing to say the least.
> 
> Additionally, if you ever need someone to demo any of your new products feel free to get in touch with me and we'll chat. I wouldn't expect any form of monetary compensation, I'd be happy just keeping the equipment in return for my professional opinion.
> 
> :waving:


Hi Again Camden,
To show you how far along we are on the design of this kit, swing by the Las Vegas Convention Center next week on your way home from the office! All kidding aside, we have been working directly with Dodge's Truck division in developing this mount and they have a mount with plow, on one of these new trucks that will be in their display booth at the big SEMA show in Las Vegas starting next Tuesday! This is a massive show that all of the OEM's have product display booths in. The show consists mainly of 1000's of aftermarket accessory companies from all over the world. We feel very proud to have one of our plows on display as part of an OEM display. SEMA is an acronym for Specialty Equipment Market Association.


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## Gary Dwinal (Aug 1, 2001)

mcwlandscaping;419147 said:


> Hi gary, i sent you a PM! I hope you can get them!!
> 
> -mike-


Hi Mike,
I just replied back to you. Yes, I am willing to help out in any way I can. Young guys like yourself, who are already using Fisher products, can become excellent ambassadors for our company as the years go by.


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## Camden (Mar 10, 2007)

Gary Dwinal;419148 said:


> Hi Again Camden,
> To show you how far along we are on the design of this kit, swing by the Las Vegas Convention Center next week on your way home from the office! All kidding aside, we have been working directly with Dodge's Truck division in developing this mount and they have a mount with plow, on one of these new trucks that will be in their display booth at the big SEMA show in Las Vegas starting next Tuesday! This is a massive show that all of the OEM's have product display booths in. The show consists mainly of 1000's of aftermarket accessory companies from all over the world. We feel very proud to have one of our plows on display as part of an OEM display. SEMA is an acronym for Specialty Equipment Market Association.


I would "swing by" if I could buy that truck at the show. Do you think they'd sell it on the spot? Assuming it 's the model I want, I'd need some help getting the plow strapped on the back so I could safely drive it back to Minnesota but we'll work out those details later. Do some calling and let me know.


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## Gary Dwinal (Aug 1, 2001)

Camden;419167 said:


> I would "swing by" if I could buy that truck at the show. Do you think they'd sell it on the spot? Assuming it 's the model I want, I'd need some help getting the plow strapped on the back so I could safely drive it back to Minnesota but we'll work out those details later. Do some calling and let me know.


Hey,
I do believe we both have about the same sense of humor. I really like your style and would like to meet you in person someday. I recon if you brought enough money, and took the right people out to the "right spots" for an evening or two, you might be able to buy that particular truck on the spot. Of course one or two of them Dodge guys would then probably loose their job, but as long as you are on your back to Minnesota with your new truck by then, who cares!! Give me a call, I'll help you load it up and drive it back for ya!!

Good luck on finding the right truck you want and thank you very much for your patronage of our products. You sound like a great ambassador for both our products and your industry as a whole. I think our world needs more people like you. There would be a little less stress to go around.


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## William B. (Jul 22, 2004)

I know you can't go into extreme details but does Fisher have anything new coming down the line in the next year or two?


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## mmtwin (Jan 14, 2005)

*Which minute mount*

Hello Gary,
I recently bought 01 chevy2500hd with mounts on it. Was wondering which minute mount will fit this truck. It has a three plug system as well. Also which controller to use. I have always used fisher, but they have all been speedcast with underhood hydralics. Love those old ones though.

Thanks Mike


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## Gary Dwinal (Aug 1, 2001)

William B.;419194 said:


> I know you can't go into extreme details but does Fisher have anything new coming down the line in the next year or two?


Hi Bill,
I wish I could spill my guts here, but then I would have to shoot myself. I would probably have to hurry because there would be a waiting line here within our organization to do it. Suffice it to say there will be additional new products coming in 08, 09, 10, and well I think you get it. Our company is very dedicated to on-going new product development and current product improvements. As Product Manager here, that is by far the most exciting part of my job. It includes getting out and talking to users of our products as well as sellers of our products, using our products, and working side by side with the Engineers designing the products.

There, I typed a long response without saying anything incriminating. However, you do not know anything more than you did before reading my response!! I appreciated you premising your question the way you did as you pretty much knew I would not be able unveil a whole lot. Thank you for using Fisher products and I think you will like our products even more in the future.


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## Gary Dwinal (Aug 1, 2001)

mmtwin;419195 said:


> Hello Gary,
> I recently bought 01 chevy2500hd with mounts on it. Was wondering which minute mount will fit this truck. It has a three plug system as well. Also which controller to use. I have always used fisher, but they have all been speedcast with underhood hydralics. Love those old ones though.
> 
> Thanks Mike


Hi Mike,
With one minor exception, pretty much any Minute Mount or Minute Mount2 regular duty or heavy duty plow set up should attach right up to your truck. The only exception might be (highly unlikely) the jackstand on an earlier style Minute Mount may come into close proximity to the license plate frame on your front bumper. It would obviously be ideal if you could find a plow that was wired with the three wire system as it would snap on to the truck and you would instantly be in business. You should have a white Molex connector under your dash for the control to plug into and either our joystick control or our hand held Fish-Stik control should plug into that connector and work fine.

I fully understand your love of the old underhood hydraulics, but I think you will at least equally like if not more so, enjoy the constant speed of the electric hydraulic power unit. It will lift and angle the plow at a very fast speed whether the truck is idling or revving at high speed.

Good luck finding a plow to go on your truck. I am pretty sure most any Fisher outlet would be very happy to sell you a brand new shiny one to go on it!


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Gary Dwinal;419078 said:


> (I won't mention the issues involving the PolyCaster either, where we as a manufacturer stood tall, made apologies to our customers, and did the right thing by sending very expensive upgrade kits at no charge to every customer that purchased one of those units last year)


I'm a little confused by this comment. You stood tall? You should have, it was not properly designed and fully tested in the first place. The first post on PS from DD about the issues was well over a month after the members here started asking questions and posting about their problems.

Very expensive upgrade kits? Yes, that would be the right thing to do as once again, it was not properly designed and fully tested.

No charge, did you expect to get paid for something to make a piece of equipment operational after they already paid for it?

Sorry, I just don't understand this comment.


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## Kramer (Nov 13, 2004)

Gary Dwinal;417874 said:


> Hi Flipper,
> I think your question is a great question and one we have heard often since acquiring the Blizzard brand. Now that the Blizzard brand is part of our DD family, the installation guidelines have undergone some significant changes. Many of the vehicles that attachments were built for are no longer approved for plow installations. Some of these attachments are still available out in the field, but do not meet the weight criteria to be legitimate and legal snowplow installations. For some of the vehicles that are borderline for having a "lightweight but commercial duty" snowplow installed on them, it then becomes a matter of economics for a manufacturer like us. For a very high percentage of the people plowing with those types of compact or downsized trucks, the plows we are currently offering are very acceptable and work just fine. In most cases, these downsized trucks are simply not suitable or applicable to any type of commercial plowing. Most people that are truly plowing commercially tend to buy larger trucks that are applicable for the larger, more commercial duty snowplow installations.
> I have often said on here, other plow manufacturers continue to offer mounts for vehicles that when plows are installed on, do not even come close to meeting FMVSS rules and regulations. Said in other words, the vehicles are overloaded on either FGAWR and/or GVWR and are completely illegal and if ever involved in a traffic accident, the owner and or installer can be held liable for injuries or damage. The difference between DD and other plow manufacturers is we "take the high road" on this matter and pass every bit of information we can get our hands on, to our distributors and end users to help clarify what plows can legally be put on what trucks. The E-match program on our web site which is available to all is an excellent resource to see if your vehicle is applicable to the size plow you would like to install on it. Sorry to be so long winded, but this is probably the most sensitive topic in our industry, as vehicle load ratings continue to diminish in favor of passenger car like ride and handling characteristics in "trucks" today.
> I will also add that we are continuing to learn more and more about various manufacturing and design techniques. As a result, we may very well be able to design plows that will withstand the types of rigors you are looking for that will be applicable for the downsized trucks in the near future.
> Thanks for your question.


I have to chime in here.....

from your post:

"Now that the Blizzard brand is part of our DD family, the installation guidelines have undergone some significant changes. Many of the vehicles that attachments were built for are no longer approved for plow installations".

Why?????? Do you see a lot of bent up blizzards or frame rails???? Are the Blizzard engineers so sub-standard that their work is not acceptable? Looking at a blizzard plow (and listening to a dealer) shows that the metal thickness of the plow is substantially more than a Meyer, fisher---and although I'm sure this isnt the root cause, it is an indication that the plows were built at least as good if not better than other brands. So that leaves the vehicle itself---in short, ........

I have a tacoma with the Fisher MM1-- 6'9" LD plow...it works great and with ballast it's perfectly fit for that truck. I'm not sure what standards you're following, but in short, if it was OK in 2000 and now its not for that same truck.....well....there's no common sense to that. If it was a different truck or there were major faults found after several years, I'd buy it.... I don't think that's the case as I had a dealer put it on in 2005. It was OK then.

To follow along, (from above) you indicate that the blizzard that still has parts in the field is no longer acceptable to be a legal setup....I think the plow manufacturers need to look out there and see there are a LOT of people with smaller trucks with light duty plows that are not willing to buy a 1 ton and a 9' plow for the driveway applications they deal with. And considering that we are talking about the same truck in 2000 and now, the indication that either the truck or the plow are not capable is just BS. If I didn't have 30 years using small plows behind me I might believe it--but the real world indicates differently. I know that the lions share of plows is not in the 6-7 ft range..and that's where the economics come in.

So what you're trying to tell everyone is that for 50 years people plowed with jeeps, but now it's not ok?? Or they should glue a 1/2 plywood board on the front because it won't handle 350lbs???

I think you will find that most of us are getting a little disgusted with the notion that someone with a new rule is taking away something that works fine. So when some of these people who have tight drives can't get them done in a few years, maybe the plow guys don't really care if those jobs and plow sales end up in the Sears snowblower dept.

Just my $0.02....nothing personal to you.


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## Gary Dwinal (Aug 1, 2001)

Mark Oomkes;419209 said:


> I'm a little confused by this comment. You stood tall? You should have, it was not properly designed and fully tested in the first place. The first post on PS from DD about the issues was well over a month after the members here started asking questions and posting about their problems.
> 
> Very expensive upgrade kits? Yes, that would be the right thing to do as once again, it was not properly designed and fully tested.
> 
> ...


Mark,
I was just reading some of the posts on the "other web site" as we are also answering questions as a service to our customers on that site during this week as well as this site. I just realized you are one of the moderators of that web site and it appears you are trying to get a negative dialog going on this site. This site has been very positive all week with many questions being asked and answered which is what this week is all about. Not sure if you own any Fisher products, but if you do or have interest in possibly purchasing some in the future, I will be more than happy to answer any product related questions for you. I do not have any interest in the type of dialog you have posted above. Thank you for keeping your messages in a positive manner from this point forward.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Gary Dwinal;419215 said:


> Mark,
> I was just reading some of the posts on the "other web site" as we are also answering questions as a service to our customers on that site during this week as well as this site. I just realized you are one of the moderators of that web site and it appears you are trying to get a negative dialog going on this site. This site has been very positive all week with many questions being asked and answered which is what this week is all about. Not sure if you own any Fisher products, but if you do or have interest in possibly purchasing some in the future, I will be more than happy to answer any product related questions for you. I do not have any interest in the type of dialog you have posted above. Thank you for keeping your messages in a positive manner from this point forward.


Nope, just pointing out something that I don't get. You did the right thing, great, you should have. I would expect nothing less. I too have gone to great expenses when I have screwed up but I don't pat myself on the back that I did it.

As for the Fisher products, I'd suggest a search here or 'the other site' and check my history and comments on Fisher products. Then get back to me on negativity for Fisher products.


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## Flipper (Nov 1, 2001)

Gary I'd have to say I agree with Mark & Kramer here. Every year you guys come on here and other sites and that is great. I have had many Fisher plows over the year and really fell that they are superior. However it bothers me that all you want to hear on this thread is how great Fishers are or how happy owners are. We came at you with two major issues. Real LD plows and the Spreader issue. Neither one you want to address and say the bottom line that Fisher, Douglas Dynamics or whoever dropped the ball. Meyer has a steel blade with steel springs 6'8" that complete weighs 327lbs. Certainly Fisher could get into this area with a real plow. As Kramer said I too have years of plowing with small and large Fishers. A niche of my business is plowing small tightly curved drives, that I can't get into with my 8-9ft one tone trucks. My 6.5 to 7 ft Fishers work like a charm here.

As for the spreaders, Mark brings up good points. IMO Fisher had to do something to warranty repairs. In this day of the internet we all talk about problems, thats a way of life. Read the threads here most people are asking for help with a problem. Those Fisher/Western spreaders had a major problem, that could have led to legal issues had repairs not been made. It has nothing to do with Fisher being a great company, they were saving face. I got warranty work done on a truck last year because I was able to bring in proof my problem happened to others as well. We know that you guys watch these forums year round. Give us a little credit. 

We are coming to Fisher, an equipment supplier, with things we would like to see, you should be doing everything you can to make it happen. Its great that you are on to answer questions, heck I would like to see you here all year actually responding, again I don't know why this can't happen and I am sure we will get some sort of excuse. Bottom line when a customer of mine has a problem I stand up and address it until it is resolved. I don't hide behind standards while my competition figures out a solution. Just my $.02. Of course if I can't get a small Fisher when I buy my next small truck I guess I will be buying the Meyer and if the Blizzard mountings change, I guess I won't be running that or the Fisher on my next one ton.


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## mkwl (Jan 21, 2005)

Thanks for the info Gary, I appreciate it.

I've got one more question for you-

I've currently got my plow in our barn in Upstate NY for storage until winter. I need get it back to NJ for winter. My question is- can I drive home (about a 250 mile trip) with it on my truck safely around 55MPH without damaging anything? What is the main reason for the max 40MPH transport warning?


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## Yaz (Apr 13, 2005)

Gary Dwinal;419090 said:


> Hi Yaz,
> I really like some of your ideas and all will be taken under advisement. Your feedback is the type of stuff that is a real bonus out of being involved in these forums for the week. We are always looking into lighter weight materials to manufacture snowplows from. Like all features, they have to meet the balance between cost and performance. To date the aluminum has always lost on the cost side of the equation. That is not to say that it won't happen some day though. We are constantly learning new and more efficient manufacturing methods that help to offset some of the material costs. I agree with the "scrambling to catch up" as this industry is getting much more competitive with some high tech, and intelligent players. Fisher Engineering has been at the top of this group for many years and we are working hard to stay there. The competition that is now present in the industry has been a good thing as it has forced us to upgrade our entire company from our people, manufacturing plants, and technology, to the new products that we are continuing to develop and offer for sale.
> Thanks again for the great ideas. I really like the idea of a Fisher logo on the remaining mount that stays on the truck. It always impresses me that people are very proud that they own Fisher equipment, and want to have the Fisher name remaining on their truck after removing the plow. We have had many requests of that type since going to the Minute Mount style plows several years back.


No problem Gary

Since I'm a Manufacturing Engineer, it my job to come up with continues improvements and cost reductions etc. This ones on the house! If you guys need some help, you can always call me.  I can come up with more ideas to increase your market share if you want, I spent all of 2 minutes thinking up the ones I told you.


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## capt caper (Jan 2, 2003)

Gary

I just bought an 08 Ford F350 SuperDuty 6.4 as of last Thur. I kept my SEHP 2 plug 9 pin MM 8' HeavyDuty since it is in excellant shape still. I always cover it and store it with WD40.

Will there be a problem hooking it up to the 08? As far as headgear hitting the truck like the Chevy you mentioned above?

Also can you give me the current part list needed to do the conversion to the 3 plug system? I read I'll have to get the new Intensfire .is that true?


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## Gary Dwinal (Aug 1, 2001)

mkwl;419431 said:


> Thanks for the info Gary, I appreciate it.
> 
> I've got one more question for you-
> 
> I've currently got my plow in our barn in Upstate NY for storage until winter. I need get it back to NJ for winter. My question is- can I drive home (about a 250 mile trip) with it on my truck safely around 55MPH without damaging anything? What is the main reason for the max 40MPH transport warning?


Hi mkwl,
To the best of my knowledge there are no laws regulating the answer to your question. It is simply to deal with safety issues. Because of the amount of wind you are pushing when traveling down the highway with a blade on your truck it definitely does affect the handling characteristics. The biggest thing you need to be observant of other than the handling is the water temp. Some trucks will heat up a little and some will not, but at 55 - 60 MPH it is always a good idea to take a look at your temp gauge every now and then. If it does start climbing, you may want to slow down a little.


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## Gary Dwinal (Aug 1, 2001)

Flipper;419235 said:


> Gary I'd have to say I agree with Mark & Kramer here. Every year you guys come on here and other sites and that is great. I have had many Fisher plows over the year and really fell that they are superior. However it bothers me that all you want to hear on this thread is how great Fishers are or how happy owners are. We came at you with two major issues. Real LD plows and the Spreader issue. Neither one you want to address and say the bottom line that Fisher, Douglas Dynamics or whoever dropped the ball.
> 
> Hi Flipper,
> It is completely unfair for you to accuse us of not addressing your two points of contention.
> ...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Since my previous comments were thought to be negative, here's a positive--at least I think so.

Is there any hope for a stainless XLS? Or are you going to wait until the XLS is used by more than just testers?

PS Did you find my comments about Fishers yet, Gary?


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## DJMAUCTION (Oct 10, 2007)

*fluid in a new mm2*

Morning Gary.

Have a story to tell. I purchased a new MM2 vblade with a new f250 Jan 31 of this year

the dealer installed dexron III atf in the new plow. Why? lots of people say its not good because the unit uses low friction "somethings" pumps or whatever.

The fisher fluid of course is more. and I bought it. and I followed the directions, read the fisher website and pdf's and drained all teh atf out and put the fisher in.

can you tell me the real issues if any using atf and not fisher fluid.

and did that have an affect on warranty work having atf installed on a new unit.

thanks


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## Camden (Mar 10, 2007)

Hey Gary - Welcome back...here's something for ya to get your day started right:










Cheers


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## Gary Dwinal (Aug 1, 2001)

Mark Oomkes;419605 said:


> Since my previous comments were thought to be negative, here's a positive--at least I think so.
> 
> Is there any hope for a stainless XLS? Or are you going to wait until the XLS is used by more than just testers?
> 
> PS Did you find my comments about Fishers yet, Gary?


Hi Mark,
That is an interesting question. That very subject was discussed early in the conceptual stage of the whole XLS project. A decision not to design a stainless steel XLS was based on a couple of reasons. The design would have been dramatically different so the blade and wing frames would be structurally sufficient without moldboards welded onto them. The thoughts were the structure could not have been kept within the weight parameters needed, to make it a practical installation on a reasonable number of vehicles. Another reason we discounted the idea was based on simple economics. The price on this particular design plow, when added to the premium that would have come along with stainless steel, would have simply priced it out of a lot of snowplowers budgets.

Please do not be too quick to discredit our testing program. Some of the guys that were field testers for these plows are people that have Blizzard power plows in their fleets and could give us comparative data between the two. I would also add that all of our testers are very much commercial snowplowers that use the products in real world conditions.


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## Gary Dwinal (Aug 1, 2001)

Camden;419609 said:


> Hey Gary - Welcome back...here's something for ya to get your day started right:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You da man!!!!!
Ya got any cream and sugar to with that!!!!
Thanks


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## Gary Dwinal (Aug 1, 2001)

DJMAUCTION;419606 said:


> Morning Gary.
> 
> Have a story to tell. I purchased a new MM2 vblade with a new f250 Jan 31 of this year
> 
> ...


Hi DMJAUCTION,
Either Dextron III or Fisher fluid will work fine in our plows. The Fisher has many advantages over the Dextron that will make your plow perform dramatically better. The Fisher stuff is also better for the hydraulic system than is the ATF. There are many but the biggest advantage of the Fisher fluid is when it gets cold outside. Our fluid will stay viscous in extremely cold temps. Even if it is -20 degrees outside our fluid will flow thru the pump and cylinders very freely resulting in less amp draw on the vehicles battery and charging system. The viscous fluid also better lubricates the pump and all other moving parts. The Fisher oil is also designed to absorb a lot of moisture without freezing up. ATF will not absorb much moisture before it turns to jell and plugs up the inlet filter on the pump. Your warranty will not be affected by which oil (Dextron III or Fisher Fluid) is used in the system.


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## sam973 (Jan 20, 2004)

Hi Gary, good to have you back on the forum! 
The past couple years I've been posting more of a wish list for you to take back than questions about products. In the past I talked about the need for things such as better lights, and Fisher did come back with better lights. This year I have a few new ideas and some old ones to revisit. First idea is for some reworking of the tailgate style salters. There is a new trend to add liquid products to salt and if Fisher could incorporate a liquid tank into their tailgate style salters so that they could treat the salt as they spread that would be a help and huge advantage to Fisher. Idea number two has been brought up by me for the past several years, taller plows (at least at the discharge end). This year I noticed Boss has come out with a new line of plows very much the same as what I've been suggesting. They have a V-plow with 37 inch ends and an extra tall straight blade. I would love to see Fisher do something like this. My third idea for this year is a quick attach plate from fisher so I could use my plows on our loaders or skid steers. Finally to wrap up my wish list for today(I could go on), how bout an ATV line of plows? These machines are perfect for sidewalks and there is very little competition or choice for these types of units. 
As always I appreciate you coming onto the forum, and look forward to hearing from you.

Sam.


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## Gary Dwinal (Aug 1, 2001)

capt caper;419531 said:


> Gary
> 
> I just bought an 08 Ford F350 SuperDuty 6.4 as of last Thur. I kept my SEHP 2 plug 9 pin MM 8' HeavyDuty since it is in excellant shape still. I always cover it and store it with WD40.
> 
> ...


Hi Capt Caper,
You should not have any of the concerns I mentioned earlier about the GM truck.

You do not need to buy the new Intensifier lights to put that plow on your new truck. You will have to put a new harness into your current lights. However, I do not think you would be sorry you spent the money on the new lights though as the performance improvement is quite dramatic compared to our old style lights.

Here is the list of parts you will need:
Headlight plug-in harness kit depending on which lights your truck has. If it has
H13 lights you will need - 29049. If it has 2B lights you will need 29051 
Isolation Module - 29760-1
3-pin vehicle harness - 26345
Vehicle battery cable assy - 63411
Plow control harness - 26359
11-pin plow lighting harness (this is the harness you need to wire into your plow lights)
The following parts you may or may not need depending what you kept from your other truck.
22" battery cable - 22511
Motor relay 5794K-1
8737 parts bag (ie: fuse taps, wire grommet etc)


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## Gary Dwinal (Aug 1, 2001)

sam973;419642 said:


> Hi Gary, good to have you back on the forum!
> The past couple years I've been posting more of a wish list for you to take back than questions about products. In the past I talked about the need for things such as better lights, and Fisher did come back with better lights. This year I have a few new ideas and some old ones to revisit. First idea is for some reworking of the tailgate style salters. There is a new trend to add liquid products to salt and if Fisher could incorporate a liquid tank into their tailgate style salters so that they could treat the salt as they spread that would be a help and huge advantage to Fisher. Idea number two has been brought up by me for the past several years, taller plows (at least at the discharge end). This year I noticed Boss has come out with a new line of plows very much the same as what I've been suggesting. They have a V-plow with 37 inch ends and an extra tall straight blade. I would love to see Fisher do something like this. My third idea for this year is a quick attach plate from fisher so I could use my plows on our loaders or skid steers. Finally to wrap up my wish list for today(I could go on), how bout an ATV line of plows? These machines are perfect for sidewalks and there is very little competition or choice for these types of units.
> As always I appreciate you coming onto the forum, and look forward to hearing from you.
> 
> Sam.


Hi Sam,
All very good feedback and will be taken under advisement. You say "I could go on" and my instant reply to you is. Please do go on. Getting wish lists or ideas that can make your job easier or more efficient is exactly what my job is all about here. If you and anyone else reading this thread has additional feedback for ideas please forward them here.

I would really like to encourage you and others to pass more info along on details of liquid pre-wetting. How many people are actually running pre-wetting systems on their ice control equipment? Are you spraying straight de-icer or adding it to the material being spread.

Thank You Sam


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## sam973 (Jan 20, 2004)

Garry, as far as the pre-wetting goes as of now I either load the salter up and dump the liquid on top, or I buy pre-treated salt(costs almost double the price). With the liquid added, a belt feed system is a must have. The material gets heavy and can clump. If fisher could design a system that sprays the salt as it hits the spinner I think that would be ideal. It would keep the mix dry until it is spread. I'm sure others on the site will have more thoughts to add to this as well.
Sam


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## Gary Dwinal (Aug 1, 2001)

sam973;419656 said:


> Garry, as far as the pre-wetting goes as of now I either load the salter up and dump the liquid on top, or I buy pre-treated salt(costs almost double the price). With the liquid added, a belt feed system is a must have. The material gets heavy and can clump. If fisher could design a system that sprays the salt as it hits the spinner I think that would be ideal. It would keep the mix dry until it is spread. I'm sure others on the site will have more thoughts to add to this as well.
> Sam


Sam,
Again - thanks for your help on this matter. Your feedback is valuable on this subject. It is something we are hearing more and more about.


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## mcwlandscaping (Sep 8, 2005)

Gary Dwinal;419155 said:


> Hi Mike,
> I just replied back to you. Yes, I am willing to help out in any way I can. Young guys like yourself, who are already using Fisher products, can become excellent ambassadors for our company as the years go by.


Hey Gary, i just sent you another PM......."Mike Wenrich, Embassador to Fisher Engineering" I like it! LOL


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## Gary Dwinal (Aug 1, 2001)

Gary Dwinal;417433 said:


> Hello to all,
> Let us all pray for heavy snow this winter! Heck, even a normal winter would be OK. This is the week I always look forward to each year. Getting direct feed back from customers that use our products commercially, is very valuable to our company and we take it very seriously. From now thru Friday, October 26, I will answer any technical or general questions about Fisher Snow and Ice Control products. It is great to be back on the plowsite forum.
> I would also love to hear from you all about any new product ideas. Maybe there are modifications you have made to your equipment that have helped you out. Maybe you have always wished you could buy _______ to help your equipment be more efficient?
> Thank you and I look forward to your comments and questions.


To All,
I would like to this opportunity to thank all of you who have participated in or just followed along on this thread this week. I have received a lot of great ideas for product improvements and new products. Hopefully, we have helped out a few of you along the way and addressed some of the concerns or questions you have had about our company and our products. I think we all made it thru the week without anyone's feelings getting hurt or I hope that is the case. Again, as I did last year, I thoroughly commend the manner in which this forum is managed and operated. The participants of this site fully understand the value of having factory participation and utilize it in a manner that is in their best interests. 
Thanks Again.


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## mkwl (Jan 21, 2005)

mcwlandscaping;419693 said:


> Hey Gary, i just sent you another PM......."Mike Wenrich, Embassador to Fisher Engineering" I like it! LOL


I can't wait to plow with my Fisher this winter- "Matt the Fisher Ambassador" Has a nice ring to it!


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