# average hourly rate



## plow4u (Jan 17, 2000)

I was just wondering if anyone could tell an average hourly rate for my 2000 Ram 2500 w/ 7.5 plow with wings and tailgate mini spreader. All of my contracts are priced per push and was ask the other day by a prospect what I would charge per hour.


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## Lazer (Jan 1, 2000)

Depends on how many hours a typical winter will generate for you.

If you only make 5-10 trips in an AVERAGE winter, your hourly rate would need to be $150+

If you make 40 trips/winter, obviously you could charge less.


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## Alan (Mar 2, 2000)

There are WAY too many variables from area to area to be able to talk "average dollars".


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## PINEISLAND1 (Dec 21, 1999)

I know things change a lot from area to area, and we've hashed it over before, but I think if your in the neighborhood of $125 per hour with that rig for plowing, you'll be close. Now if your local market will pay that is another question. Residential and small businesses may balk in some areas at that.

No matter what the rate you determine in your head to shoot for, most here seem to feel that translating that into a per plow or per season charge is probably the way to go. It is easier to get the general public to accept it that way, at least the ones who cannot understand the concepts of overhead and true operating costs.


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## Lazer (Jan 1, 2000)

It's facinating you say "residentials and small commercials".

Around here, large commercials pay only $45-55 per truck/hour, (CONTRACT price, not subs) and we average less than 200 hours/winter.


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## PINEISLAND1 (Dec 21, 1999)

Lazer-

It sounds like you have similar amounts as we do. We will get under 20 snowfalls of 1 inch per year, about a dozen to 15 two inchers.

So you think 125 per hour is way high?

Around here subs with a straight blade and no back blade can get 50/hr. with no problem.

If I'm gonna sign a seasonal, I figure it at $125, to cover my butt just in case of the big winter.


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## OBRYANMAINT (May 20, 2001)

in ohio depending on the account and such i average 100 per hour gross my subs get 35/hr and no under table cash
there are too many contractors to bring prices up i think 50/hr for sub seems expensive for reg truck w/ straight blade

average

20 plows---1 to 6 inches

40 saltings trace and up


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## CCSwanson (Sep 1, 2000)

Not to change the topic but all I do is sub (truck & 9" blade)and I get 55.00 per hour in SW Ohio


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## Doug406 (Jan 24, 2000)

*2 points*

CCSwanson- yeh, I bet you are worth it, if you have been plowing for a couple of years. We pay $40 to start and $50 for experienced subs. Do you have your own liability insurance?

Lazer- $45-$50 for hourly work? Are you in the same Michigan that I am? Our state is shaped like a hand, right? Seriously though, like I said in another post, we locked a contract for a 8 acre site that was getting done at $55 per truck hour. When I met with the supervisor and he told me that, I had to chuckle right in his face. I told him we will not even come close tohat rate, but we will do a quality, effective timely job. Well we got the contact. I work on contact/per push, not per hour; but we base all work at $115 per hour.


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## CCSwanson (Sep 1, 2000)

Doug 406.. I have been doing sub work for about 10 years even though I have never operated with liability insurance until this year (thanks to this site) always thought that was the orginal contractors responsbility


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## John Allin (Sep 18, 2000)

Guys still operating without liability insurance......

Oh boy.... have we got a long way to go as an industry.


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## iowastorm (Aug 20, 2000)

If you've been operationg w/out liability insurance to this point with no problems, consider yourselves lucky. Now, I'm not being critical, but I guarantee that eventually something will happen and you'll get caught with you pants down. Remember, liability insurance only costs about $500/year for around $1 million and have commercial insurance on your vehicle too. Why you ask? Not only will you cover yourself, but you will also lend yourself as a professional; contractor or subcontractor. 

Just yesterday, I met with a property manager to explain our plan of attack for snow removal service and his first concern was if we were going to spend TOO much time there (unfortunately, this is a T&M job). I explained to him that since I have been hired as his professional snow and ice management contractor, I am not only potentially liable for slip and falls, etc. but the quality of work we do will reflect upon our company and his complex. Therefore, my plan was to do everything possible to ensure the job was done right and that the quality of work/timeliness would outweigh the cost. In fact, after I explained my position, he completely changed his attitude on the matter. 

In regards to the average hourly rates, here in Iowa the T&M scabs work for anywhere from $30 to $65 per hour. In fact, I agree with the others that we, as professionals, should charge well over $100/hr. on average. This is why we have completely quit bidding T&M jobs; they're simply a waste of time. It's my opinion that many customers don't really care about the quality of the plowing job as long as the lot is open and nobody complains or gets hurt (cost over quality). What they can distinguish is how we present ourselves, how often we show up during a snow event to offer our services and the distances we went to ensure their satisfaction. The end result from our professionalism will be a quality job and satisfied customers.


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## GeoffD (Dec 21, 1999)

John, agree with you, about having insurance, there is no way around it you have to have it. However i don't care if your the president of SIMA or not, there is no need for the remark in your post.

Guys still operating without liability insurance...... 

Oh boy.... have we got a long way to go as an industry JA

I respect and commend your efforts in attempting to improve the snow removal business. Only some guys just don't know all of insurance, rules, and regulations out there, and it's not like it is being taught all over the discovery channel. John i know you have been to the rich part of Maine, Portland and Rockland. Take a trip into the into the western mountains, and you will find bondo buckets, and tons of guys with out insurance. However these guys are plowing just to keep food on the table ( its sad but it's true). 

I am just a little upset with that response, yes there are a lot of people out there with a lot to learn. It just the way you said it appeared a little negative to me. Maybe i am reading this wrong, i am sorry if i am. Today was just not a good day ( thank god it was just something a little stupid, and didn't involve family or business).

Geoff


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## diggerman (May 19, 2001)

I guess having liability insurance somehow comes about when you know you have more to loose than a rusty 71 chevy pickup with a bed made of two by fours and a wrecker off a 51 chevy 2 ton chained to the back, a plow cobbled up to fit,that used to be on the 47 powerwagon you used to use.And going to jail bugs you because its not where you have been for the past three years anyway for beating up your exwifes boy friend who now is getting what little money you do earn to feed your kids that you don't feel should be your responsability.Point is having insurance sets you apart from the other guy in just one more way,and just because he does'nt have insurance maybe "just where he's at right now",but he'll have enough to join SIMA next year.(He just wants the bumper sticker.)


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## mckaylawnboy (Sep 27, 2000)

Well said DOUG406, I live in south east Michigan and I base all my contracts on $125 Hr. All three of my trucks have 9'2" Boss "V". The only time I ever was sub contracted I got $600 for work that took about 8 Hrs. with one truck.


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## GeoffD (Dec 21, 1999)

My point was simple. For the record i am insured. However at least where i am from, maybe your luckier than i am. There are severals guys out there that don't plow big stuff, just drives for cheap, just to survive.

Does it bother me? No because they take the crap jobs, however give them time and they will learn. Or they will give up plowing, all i am saying is if the guy is just trying to survive don't knock him. Maybe i am just too respectfull i don't know.

I mean i just don't want to worry about them, because their problems are not mine. There will always be low balling guys, unprofessional, guys like that out there.

Geoff

[Edited by GeoffDiamond on 10-01-2000 at 03:10 AM]


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## John Allin (Sep 18, 2000)

Upset or not, it isn't good for the industry to have guys out there "competing" with us, and don't have insurance. It's like guys in the landscape business out there cutting grass for $10 a hit because they don't have an insurance premium to make - or paying "employees" under the table to avoid the taxes and workmans comp. It upsets ME when people justify others being out there without proper insurance "just because". It's one of the things that sets the "professional" apart from the "plow jockey".

Does the statement have negative connotations? You bet it does. However.... let's give the guy credit for being on this forum. He can learn from everyone here, and maybe he will learn that having the proper coverage will set him apart from the one truck operators that charge peanuts and damage the 'industry' as a whole.

I'm not the least bit offended that you were upset. The fact that it sparked something in anyone is good enough reason to continue making it known that operating without proper coverage is not acceptable in the business world. 

Maybe, just maybe, he'll raise his pricing to cover the cost of being in business. 

Ok, ok.... you got a point. If it is someone who is plowing a couple of driveways to make a little extra bread to put food on the table - I understand and condone that. We (you and I) arn't trying to compete with that. However, if this fellow goes and plows a $100 plaza for $40 bucks because he doesn't have a premium to pay, isn't reporting the income, and is circumventing the business process - that's not right.


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## diggerman (May 19, 2001)

Sorry, Geoff I think you took me wrong,I was trying to drum up a mental picture,not really for or against them just realizing that these guys are out there trying to do there thing for better or worse and Liability insurance is the farthest thing from their mind,let alone insurance on their vehicle period,often doing us a favor buy showing those companies that want to get off cheap just why we charge what we do.No offense intended just a reality statement.


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## John Allin (Sep 18, 2000)

Geoff,
I wasn't trying to offend anyone either. And my position with SIMA has nothing to do with it. If I offended, my apologies.


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## Greenman2ooo (Aug 22, 2000)

Having insurance doesn't make me better than anyone else in this industry as many people try to imply. I'm not singling ANYONE out here, because I've "heard" discussions at this site in the past that complain about uninsured, unlicensed operators, etc. I DO carry insurance and feel it is a good idea. Mandatory, by my way of thinking.

I don't carry insurance because I want our industry to be better. I do it because I don't want to risk losing everything I make now and in the future because I am unprotected.

Maybe those who are trying to elevate our industry should start by letting others know "what's in it for them." That is the fastest way to persuade other to change. No amount of name calling or accusations will bring about change.

I don't believe potential customers think ill of uninsured contractors, rather they don't want to assume the additional risk of lawsuits.

By the way, my <$500 per year liability insurance premium hasn't caused me to raise my prices. A little less than $10 a week doesn't affect anyone's bottom line. Therefore, the contention that others who charge less are doing so because they aren't paying insurance premiums doesn't make much sense to me.

Stop pimping subs like they are five dollar street walkers and you won't have to complain about YOUR profit margins. I see where a person could get the impression that half the going rate is a reasonable rate since it is good enough for a sub.

[Edited by Greenman2ooo on 10-01-2000 at 04:01 AM]


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## GeoffD (Dec 21, 1999)

I am not bother by the statement at all. I am happy as a clam with what i have for equipment and accounts.

No one hurt my feelings a bit.

I guess i was just standing up for the other guy.

Geoff


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## plowking35 (Dec 21, 1999)

I heard this statement at the SIMA symposium this year.
" Guys who subcontract are lazy"
And it is true. They want to plow, but they dont want the hassel of running a business, chasing customers, selling services, cash flow management and all that goes with it.
They just want to drive and plow no strings attached.
What I pay my subs is what they request. So if someone wants $30.00 per hour, thats what I pay him. If he asks for more I pay it. They tell me what they are worth. I have one sub that is getting $75.00 per hr and worth every dime. HE makes me over$250.00 per hour when he plows. But he doesnt know that, he is happy with the $75.00 that he asked for.
So we do not treat the subs like what you referred to them as, we pay what they want.
If they wanted more money then they need to ask for it.
As far as insurance goes, if they dont have the money to pony up for it, we will pay the premium for them, and deduct from their plow earnings.
Dino


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## John Allin (Sep 18, 2000)

We do that too... if they can't get it, we pay for it and deduct it. Some guys actually prefer it that way, then they don't have to think about it.


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## iowastorm (Aug 20, 2000)

I love the debates that get sparked off here . . . It's funny how guys spend so much time trying to figure out how to beat paying taxes, insurance, etc, when the time spent they could have just paid the piper and been done with it all. I realize that there are guys out there trying to simply put some food on the table. Not too long ago I was one of those guys too. In fact, I think at some point, we've all been there. My problem, however, is like John pointed out - the guys out there undercutting us and keeping a low perception on our industry as a whole. Just because we consider ourselves professionals, does that mean we are? Maybe, maybe not. Just because we believe we should all earn an average of well over $100/hr, does that mean we should? Maybe. Customers will pay what the market will bear and, if the undercutters knew what we do, they could still get the work and not have to undercut us. 

In no way did I mean offense to anyone on this board. In contrast, I like so many others, have a great fondness of the snow and ice management industry and would like to see its status elevated to the highest possible level. Maybe my (our) comments come from frustration or lack of patience when we would like to see results sooner that expected?


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## Chuck Smith (Dec 30, 1999)

I just wanted to thank all of you for explaining your views, without getting personal. This is a "great debate", and I'm glad we've kept it civil.

As far as hourly, I have to agree with Alan.

"There are WAY too many variables from area to area to be able to talk "average dollars"."

I agree because I don't plow hourly. If I was to compute a figure of what I earn hourly, it would be far above $100.

We discussed pricing a little at the BBQ yesterday. I had mentioned in other posts, I saw something to the effect of guys getting $12 - $15 for a residential driveway. They were faaaaaaaaaaar away from me, across the US. They also were in an area that sees 30+ snowfalls a season. This opposed to the 6 - 10 we get here. I don't know that the number of storms makes the biggest difference, I just think any kind of service around here is costly is the main reason for higher prices.

For instance, the shop that does the repairs I can't make on my truck, gets $70 per hour labor. The small engine shop (that I wouldn't go to) gets $64 per hour for labor. A tow, if I was to break down would run me at least $100, even to just go down the road a few miles.

All of this impacts my pricing more than anything else.
My flat hourly rate for any grounds maintenance or labor, is $45. I'm much lower than other services (auto shops, equip. repair shops, electricians, plumbers, etc.), and have not gotten many jobs because of it. I've not gotten them because I was "too high". It doesn't bother me, I just pass on the work, rather than lower my price. There's always a "green pirate" that will do it cheaper.

I have a friend that hauls stumps. He has been doing most of the hauling from all the new developments in this area. He recently lost 3 developments to a new guy. The reason? Prices. My friend had been getting $125 per load. The new guy is doing it for $70 a load. Now the Developer feels he's been getting cheated all this time. Not so. My friend hauls the stumps to a yard where they are ground into mulch.
The new guy, has a 5 acre parcel he is piling them on. My friend has to pay by the ton to dump the stumps, whereas the new guy only pays for his fuel, since he owns the 5 acres. Sooner or later the 5 acres will be full, and he'll have A LOT of stumps to get rid of. In the meantime, he's making the other trucking companies look bad.

What I'm trying to say is that price scalping is a common occurence in all industries like ours. I think it always will be. All we can do is present ourselves as professionals, and live up to the image of what WE each feel is a "professional".

Every year there are 1,000's of people getting into the biz, and the #1 way they get jobs is by price scalping. One of two things then usually happens. Either they aren't in business very long, or they gradually raise their prices as they gain experience and knowledge. In the mean time, they make the rest of us "look bad" , but there's not much we can do about it. If we got out of the biz tomorrow, there would be another contractor there doing the same work, for a different price, or possibly the same price. 

Customer education is the key, but by far the most difficult task of all. As was said earlier, as long as they look at the price first, as opposed to what they REALLY get for their hard earned dollars, we will have this dilema.

Getting off the soap box now.....

~Chuck


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## CCSwanson (Sep 1, 2000)

I just wanted to say thanks for all the opinions that have been stated. I do not see how anyone can say subs are lazy while I agree some are useless while others are profitable (or so I have been told). 
Now as for scrubs/scabs in the snow removal business I am not one of them I will not do a 100.00 job for 40.00 I want the 100.00 
The only reason I sub is I have a full time job (60 hours weekly) so I cannot devote time collections, bidding, or the other neccessary items for running a sucessfull business but hopefully in the near future I can get out of the lazy-scrub/scab sub contractors syndrome and better myself by joining SIMA and become a professional snow removal contractor.


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## CCSwanson (Sep 1, 2000)

* and yes I will be insured as a sub this year as well from here on out!!*


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## John Allin (Sep 18, 2000)

Wait a minute. Wait a minute.

Don't beat yourself up. I have some subs that are dynamite plowers. I don't agree with the statement that all subs are lazy. Far from it. I've got subs that will work until they drop - sleep two hours - and go another 24 without complaining one little bit. Some people aren't cut out for collecting money, running a business, soliciting new business. Hell, some of my subs don't present themselves real well, are not real articulate, but damn, can they make tracks in a lot full of snow. And without doing any damage, and without much effort. Plus, if they are working a full time job they just don't have the time to "run" a plowing business.

And, insurance is for covering YOUR butt - nothing else (although we might get some arguement about THAT statement). 

In retrospect, my comment about the industry and insurance was one made while I was abit irritated and tired. It was probably abit out of line too.... so don't beat yourself up. Subs are the lifeblood of a large plowing contractors business - and I, for one, will not forget that... because that's where my bread and butter comes from. I'm nothing without good subs.


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## JCurtis (May 14, 2001)

My rate is $80.00 /hr for my 1/2 ton 4wd pickups with plows. $150.00 /hr for my Case 4wd Backhoe Loader. 

Seems to be ok for my area of Connecticut. seems to be the average


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## jaclawn (May 6, 2000)

plowking35 wrote: I heard this statement at the SIMA symposium this year. 
" Guys who subcontract are lazy" 
And it is true. 



I take offense to this statement. I currently am a sub. I do have a few of my own accounts that are also "summer" customers. 

I work very, very hard 10 months out of the year. I put in a minimum of 60 hours per week in the field. That coupled with the non-billable hours, and you can see that I am a very busy man. 

I like to take it easy in the winter. I don't want to have all the weight on my shoulders. Subbing gives me enough freedom to be my own boss, yet I don't have near the responsibilites as the larger operations. 

One of the biggest parts of the snow removal trade is preperation. That means that NOW you must be lining up work, preparing trucks and equipment, scheduling routes, stockpiling salt... You know. 

Right now is the busiest time of the year for me in the "green trade", and I couldn't imagine having to do all that "snow" work now as well. 

I am not lazy. I keep busy all winter long. I do go out and plow when it snows. Inbetween snowstorms, I am working on the green side of my business; rebuilding equipment, going over books, selling work for the upcoming season...

If I did not do as much in the green season, maybe if I only put in 40 hours per week, I would have to do more in the winter. I like my setup, work hard 10 months, and take it a little eaiser the other two.

If I wanted to run a larger snow removal business,with many more accounts, utilizing subs, I probally could. I choose not to. There is plenty of work out there, I choose not to pursue it. 

To agree to such a general statement is foolish.


BTW- I do charge accordingly for my services, and carry the proper insurance.


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## Eric ELM (May 13, 2001)

After reading all these posts on this thread, I find that if you are charging from $75 to $125 an hour your big time, but if you charge $15 a residential driveway you are looked down on as the next thing to a looser. I would have to lower my prices a lot on driveways to just make $150 an hour doing driveways. My average driveway is $25 and I average 10 of them an hour, since I have 61 of them within a 1/2 mile radius. Anyone looking down on someone that does residential driveways and charging ONLY $25, think again. This comes out to $250 an hour, so you guys with the big rigs charging $75 to $150 an hour for doing big lots and think us small guys are making peanuts, think again. If you plan it right, a person can charge $15 a driveway and make as much as the big time guy charging $150 an hour. Yes, I am fully insured and I have been plowing for 25 years. 

What can SIMA do for me since I have all the work I want and I've had a lot of my customers for the past 15 years since I quit doing big lots and went all residential? How would it help me?


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## GeoffD (Dec 21, 1999)

Eric, i don't think SIMA can help you. Like i have said before i am very happy where i am, doing what i am doing. 

Geoff


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## John Allin (Sep 18, 2000)

Eric,

It is most definitely possible that SIMA is not for everyone. And, I would be the fool if I thought that SIMA was the saving grace for all contractors and facility managers no matter what "size" they are.

Those who look down on residential plowing contractors are small and narrow minded. You are right to be disturbed by the comments, and I (for one) would back you up all the way in those comments - and that's not just being politically correct because of my position with SIMA. One of my best friends is a plowing contractor in Syracuse that is predominantly residential and does a fabulous job at it. I respect him as a person and as a businessman. He's good. Very good. Can HE teach you anything..... I don't know. Would he be able to learn from you (or anyone else in SIMA)?? YES. I know this because he tells me that he learns from everyone he speaks with at length about our industry. He is an open minded person that realizes that he is not all knowing, and all seeing.

Eventually, SIMA will be able to offer members substancial discounts on equipment and material purchases. In your case, that might not mean much.... but as a group it could mean alot - for individuals and for others that are 'up and coming'. As a group we (SIMA members) can do more, affect how manufacturers view certain aspects of our business, eventually participate in group activities. Some states see snowplowing as a taxable service. Some states do not. If we had a large voice, we might be able to affect how some people view this "tax" situation.

But this is not the only case for being a member of the "group".....

In your particular case, YOU may have lots to offer US. Your position with lawnsite.com would lend some to think that you are computer savy. If this is the case, you may be able to assist US in learning about computers and how they can help us be better business people. That too is "being part of the group".

Yes, it will cost you money to participate - but we too would be presumptuous to think that you would only be able to "Give" and never to "Receive" from others within the group.

Some people think that I know alot about our industry. Some people think that Chuck knows alot about our industry. However, isn't it amazing that both Chuck and I have threads in this forum asking for help and assistance on subjects that we are fuzzy about.

I suppose it's possible that you are not fuzzy about anything as it relates to your snow business, but it reminds me of the "cartoon" I have on the back of a business card in my desk. It shows an army of soldiers in olden days of lore, using a mace and spear to fight wars on the plains. The Leader is waving off a "salesman" stating that he is "too busy fighting a way to listen to what this fellow has to say". And the fellow is selling gattling guns.

Which fellow are you in the picture ??

[Edited by John Allin on 10-09-2000 at 05:02 PM]


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## GeoffD (Dec 21, 1999)

Thats why i say, i have been plow for 10 years, second generation plower, and i still have got it all figured out. My dad still plows, still part owner of the company, and bought one of the first fisher plows like 52 years ago, he is the first to admit that even with 50 years of experience he doesn't have it all figured out yet. Like i said, you can't learn it in a book, Frink snowplows, even says and engineering degree isn't needed to build a plow, their engineer has 20 years in snow, and no years in college. Snow removel is a total different world.

Geoff


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## diggerman (May 19, 2001)

The nice thing about snow is the minute you think you have it all figured out along comes a special employee,snow account,snow storm or even that one special new truck and plow that proves to you you have alot to learn.The key is not to get bit but to grab the dog while he's still sniffing.


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## Eric ELM (May 13, 2001)

*John, Geoff, and Diggerman*

I know I don't know it all and wasn't saying that SIMA couldn't help me, I was just wondering what SIMA could do for me. I haven't had much time to read the Snow Forum this summer and we have a lot of new members, so I was just letting the ones that don't know me, know what my situation is. Thanks for the replies.


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## diggerman (May 19, 2001)

Hey John I got thrown in with you and Geoff and Plowking(he didn't say plowking but he should have) as an advocate for SIMA, boy have times changed.I've seen the light and I didn't even know it.

Eric read my thread called SIMA's real value and you will see that I have many of the reservations you do.Even though I understand SIMA's purpose I would like for it to hit closer to home,and I think over time it just might.


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## plowking35 (Dec 21, 1999)

Just for the record, the statement about subs was a quote from another source, not made by me personally.However in some ways it has merit.
Being a person who did sub for a season, and still has one truck that subs for another contractor, I to fit that general discription.
I could not run my business with out subs, however, if a person is truly motivated they can make more in one storm than they make all season subbing.
Of course they may not want all the baggage that comes with being ultimatly responsible for the snow removal operation. Now that may not make them lazy, however in my mind it makes me wonder why they dont to make more money.
When I learned that subs make me money, was when my truck broke down one storm. I hires a guy to cover my route, and I payed him $ 500.00 for the night. He plowed 10 hrs for me. Fifty an hour was alot of money for him, yet, I billed over 1500.00 for the same time frame and didnt have to plow.
So I made 2x the money he did, for just managing the accounts. So in essence i was lazy cause I didnt do the actuall work, yet made more money. So you figuere why I hire 3x as many subs, as I have plow trucks of my own.
Dino


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## iowastorm (Aug 20, 2000)

Hey, this is a great debate. I think that the point of all this is that we help each other learn about things and it also helps our bottom line. I'm also very happy that many people here make good money at plowing and want to take our business to a higher level. Now, if everybody's still tweeked a bit, I suggest we all go out for a few beers and then take each other in the back alley and beat the living daylights out of each other with SIMA stickers and toxic paint. That would make everyone feel much better.


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## diggerman (May 19, 2001)

There you go with the beer and toxic paint again,a least your posting before last call.As for subs making less money well I would say that for some people that extra stuff is not worth four times the money you think you make.As for me I have always worked for myself and money is important but not as important as spending time with my wife and kids which may mean there are thing I do that are designed to achive that goal vs. always trying to make that extra buck. For some people that goes against their nature but some people might say "mind your own business" and thats no pun.


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## John Allin (Sep 18, 2000)

I'm with Storm. Let's all go out back and "have at it". That'll do it. Black eyes, bloody noses.

Yup. Better yet, let's get Chuck to just spray us all with the toxic paint.

Ya know, the love on this thread is just overwhelming.

"I love ya, man!!"


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## Snow Pro (Oct 11, 2000)

*Insurance*

I respectfully disagree with the statement that insurance is only for covering your butt. It does that, but it also gets me jobs the "plow jockeys" don't get. Every week I get asked about how much insurance I have or asked for a certificate. When I tell them a million dollars or fax them a copy of the certificate, I get the job. With our highly litigous society, people are very concerned about getting sued. Probably because many of them including myself have been several times. MY INSURANCE IS FREE! When I look at the profit I've made from the jobs I got because of having the insurance, it's an investment that has paid off many times over.


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## Snow Pro (Oct 11, 2000)

P.S. I state in our contracts that we have $1,000,000.00 worth of insurance. It adds credibility in the eyes of the potential customer during the time he's forming an initial impression of you. 

I also add that I'm a member of SIMA for the same reason.


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## Snow Pro (Oct 11, 2000)

Back to the hourly thing, that depends where you are. We cover parts of both Illinois and Indiana. Everything is more expensive in Illinois. The subs there need $10 an hour more (like from $35-40 up to $45-50 per hour) for doing the same work just to keep up with their standard of living. My profits are better if I can get Indiana guys to plow my Illinois accounts. They take a hit if I have to pay Illinois guys to plow Indiana accounts.


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## AB Lawn Care (Feb 16, 2000)

I found this price list -

http://www.alpinesites.com/snoweq.shtml

it may help you out!


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## Chuck Smith (Dec 30, 1999)

Now those are some messed up prices!
$10 more per hour for an ATV with a plow, than a truck?
Only $10 more per hour for a tandem than a pick up?
Only $10 more an hour for a truck, than a snow blower?

Only $21.50 an hour for hand shoveling!!!
I made that myself on OT when employed by a school doing snow. That was in 1994. Wait, that was a union job, nevermind... 

Then again, it is a Colorado company. The air is quite thin there!


~Chuck


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## GeoffD (Dec 21, 1999)

something aint right with that company. Look at their other prices, i don't know how they stay in business. Well, actually i don't understand why they work so cheap.

Geoff


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