# Just Bidded and got Laughed at



## ChawpShop (Jul 19, 2009)

What would you guys charge per season for this place below. It is the gas station on the top.

Total Square feet to be plowed=30,000

http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=newmar...764,-79.436002&spn=0.000965,0.002406&t=h&z=19

Like I understand this is our first year plowing for ourselves but theres gotta be a serious lowballer doing it now.Please let me know what you guys think and I will post what he says his current contract is paying, salt included...Garunteed to make some laugh.

Located in Newmarket, Ontario, Canada.


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## ChawpShop (Jul 19, 2009)

Sorry meant to add 09 f350 8' plow with salter in the box.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

8,000 for the year.plus salt.

So Cet under bid you?


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## toby4492 (Dec 28, 2005)

grandview;835696 said:


> 8,000 for the year.plus salt.
> 
> So Cet under bid you?


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## millsaps118 (Aug 13, 2006)

Just throwing numbers out there, I say around $6K for the season (Nov-Mar) = $1200/mo, salt included. I base if off 35hrs/season and about 4 tons of salt total.

I'd be a "lowballer" compared to GV.:crying::crying:


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## JohnnyRoyale (Jun 18, 2006)

That would be the Esso with the Tims on the corner-right?

My guess is it went for $2500-$3000 for the winter, salt in. 

They get alot more snow there than Toronto does.


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## cet (Oct 2, 2004)

Not far from me. 

$3000 salt in, and that might be high.


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## ChawpShop (Jul 19, 2009)

Well, everyone is still too high. 2320.00 is his current lowest bid. Salt included. Now maybe some of the newmarket guys can help. Is this guy known as cheap or is that what a property like that goes for? If so my other contracts should be phoning the police because I've robbed them. He said blade cutters used to do them for 3600 two years ago.


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## JohnnyRoyale (Jun 18, 2006)

Who submitted that price?


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## cet (Oct 2, 2004)

Most of the gas stations see very little salt. I could put $15 in salt in that place. At most it is a 30 min plow.

22 plows @ 30 min=11hours.
40 salts @ $15=600

2320-600 leaves 1720.00

We drive right by that place a few times a snow fall and the salt truck wouldn't be there 5 minutes. Could I do it for that, yes, would I, no.

I also don't think that is 30,000' of pavement, it looks small to me.


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## ChawpShop (Jul 19, 2009)

He wouldnt say, believe me I wish I knew...Have you bidded there before?


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## In The Hills (Oct 9, 2009)

Well I'm glad to see my pricing isnt out to lunch.

I bid $3000 with salt for a similar sized place (and we get a lot more snow than Toronto)

Got beat by $2000 !!!

Told him give me a call when he's stuck because buddies '72 Jeep with it's Snowbear Plow is broken and I'll do for $300 a push.


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## Superior L & L (Oct 6, 2006)

cet;835767 said:


> Most of the gas stations see very little salt. I could put $15 in salt in that place. At most it is a 30 min plow.
> 
> 22 plows @ 30 min=11hours.
> 40 salts @ $15=600
> ...


WOW, if you could plow that place in 30 mins i think i'd like to sub you to do some work for me ! about 10 routes actually


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## cet (Oct 2, 2004)

I have never bid that place.

Does that place look like a lot of work. That is the gas pumps on the south side and there are only 4 pumps wide. You can see by the parking spaces that it is quite small.

I also have an 8'6" VEE with wings.

I believe the 30,000 sq' is counting buildings.


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## cet (Oct 2, 2004)

Do you know Blade Cutters?


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## nms0219 (Jan 20, 2007)

I'm with GV at least 7.500 plus salt. Gas staitions are a pita, lots of traffic and idiots to deal with. Plus the insurance is crazy.


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## cet (Oct 2, 2004)

nms0219;835820 said:


> I'm with GV at least 7.500 plus salt. Gas staitions are a pita, lots of traffic and idiots to deal with. Plus the insurance is crazy.


And there's a Tim Hortons in this one so you know the morning rush is going to be nuts.

Hitting the lids must wake you up also.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

8,000.00 for the year plus a cup of coffee every time i plow the drive thu!


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## nms0219 (Jan 20, 2007)

Ya those tank lids are insanely expensive when you mess them up. You have to replace the whole tank neck and sensor costs like 20k.


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## T-MAN (Jan 9, 2001)

Superior L & L;835787 said:


> WOW, if you could plow that place in 30 mins i think i'd like to sub you to do some work for me ! about 10 routes actually


Ha Ha, my thoughts exactly. I used to do one that size a few years back. 24 hour operation and there was always someone in the way no matter what time it was. The helps cars are always in the way too. I bet that ones 30,000 s.f. The one I did was just a wee bit more, and the car wash lanes were a bite in the ass. The best time I ever pulled on that one was probably 40 minutes plowing, and that was moving out. Usually took closer to an hour with the constant traffic. If it was really busy I would bring in another truck and use it to block traffic were we needed too.
Not sure how much salt cost in canada but the station I did always got about 500 #s, or more. Quite a bit more then $15.00 worth.

I charged more then Grandview, its was great account 

Who is doing walks ?


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## cet (Oct 2, 2004)

500 lbs of salt cost me $17.


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## ChawpShop (Jul 19, 2009)

Yeah I know the guys at blade cutters


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## T-MAN (Jan 9, 2001)

cet;835849 said:


> 500 lbs of salt cost me $17.


applied ?
If thats applied you can salt for me too


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## procut1 (Jan 21, 2004)

$15 for salt?

That might get you a couple of those Mcdonalds packets from me.

I couldnt turn my hopper on and off fast enough to drop $15 in salt.


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## cet (Oct 2, 2004)

ChawpShop;835852 said:


> Yeah I know the guys at blade cutters


A few years ago he was one of the Lowballers. Now he gets pissed when his price is undercut. There are a lot of guys plowing gas stations for pocket change. You will have a hard time getting those if you are just dropping off quotes.


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## ChawpShop (Jul 19, 2009)

Yeah blade cutters is definitly one of the bad companys in the area. Ive had 4 of their contracts approach me to get rid of them once the contract is over in the spring


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## JohnnyRoyale (Jun 18, 2006)

ChawpShop;835769 said:


> He wouldnt say, believe me I wish I knew...Have you bidded there before?


Didnt bid it.
No gas stations for us.
Cant handle them.


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## buckwheat_la (Oct 11, 2009)

1/2 hour to plow, WOW, you are the fastest snow plower in the country, i would be willing to pay for you to move to Alberta. serious though, i would hazard to guess, 

1hr-1.5 hrs @75/hour
salt @50/application

15-20 events per year, $110-160 , i would think that $2300 isn't that low, he definetly not getting rich, but he isn't completely lowballing either, i would consider this price if it was a consistent customer or i needed the work.


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## cet (Oct 2, 2004)

T-MAN;835869 said:


> applied ?
> If thats applied you can salt for me too


No that is not applied.

I think the OP was wondering how stuff gets done so cheap. There are lots of guys here that have 15 hour plowing routes. That place will look bad for 36 hours after a storm. I have seen gas stations here where the owners do it with a shovel. I also know guys that will plow a place like that for $50/time and think they are making money. The owner just wants something cheap.

I don't plow anything like this. I actually don't submit bids on anything that isn't out for tender. A lot of my stuff is invite only and they are usually multiple sites to keep the 1 and 2 truck operations out.


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## Pristine PM ltd (Oct 15, 2005)

That would take you 1.5 hours to plow buckwheat? With your ATV? Man, I know things are a little less hectic in Alberta, but come on. 

I would be a $400 a month plus $50 per app. Nov 15 to April 14


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## LoneCowboy (Jan 2, 2007)

I agree, it's no more than a 30 minute or so plow.

yes, some traffic will be in the way, etc and you add a little for that.

But if that's taking you 1 to 1.5 hours, you're in the wrong business or you have the wrong equipment. You're going to get undercut constantly until you figure out how to be quicker and more efficient.


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## In The Hills (Oct 9, 2009)

cet;835849 said:


> 500 lbs of salt cost me $17.


Where do you get your Salt ?, I'm getting quoted around $89 a ton delivered up here.


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## buckwheat_la (Oct 11, 2009)

well, i guess that depends on where the snow goes? how much traffic there is? but yeah, 1 hour minimum, i use skidsteers, take 5-7 min to unload, then you plow, around vehicles coming in and out, then you move the snow to one area of the parking lot where drainage is the best and pile it, also making sure you see black top because it is high traffic and prone to slip and falls. i wonder how many of the truck plows on this site think plowing means getting just the loose stuff off the top of the black top. oh well, we do 2 gas stations, and the one that is about that size takes 1hr - 1.5hr depending on how bad the snow pack is, and that is with a case skidsteer, and a 7.5 foot snow bucket, but we do move all snow front and back of property to the low spot with drainage in the property.either way you look at it, $2300 for the year isn't too bad.


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## buckwheat_la (Oct 11, 2009)

Also for anyone saying that isn't 30 000 sq feet, do the math on the parking stalls, and work out from there, i bet there is probably at least 30 000sq feet of black top there.


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## buckwheat_la (Oct 11, 2009)

i noticed both superior L&L, and T-man both agree with me guys, go insult them too please


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## ChawpShop (Jul 19, 2009)

My partner must have messed something up because there is not a chance its 30k sq ft. More like 15k sq.ft


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## buckwheat_la (Oct 11, 2009)

ChawpShop, if you get a chance could you measure and let us know a sq footage, using the parking stalls, i am guessing 23000 on a low end to 28000 on the high end, including the entrances and around the back of the building,


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## cet (Oct 2, 2004)

I just drove by that place 10 minutes ago. It is not as big as it looks in the picture.

We all look at times differently. I can say I never have hard pack on my sites unless they were the last school contract where you weren't allowed on site until 1" and that includes salt.

In your case a skid with a bucket will be slower however you would do a better job in making sure the snow goes over the curb. I can say my Vee with wings is extremely quick. You can move a lot of snow to a specific place in a short amount of time.

Don't worry about getting insulted, there are guys here that make it a full time job.


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## buckwheat_la (Oct 11, 2009)

lol, thanks CET my ego isn't really bruised, i kind of get a kick out of some of the guys who seem to need to add that little dig at you for some reason. oh well, is it really smaller then it looks, i went by the standard sizing of parking stalls, and worked back from that, to get a rough idea, which is why i asked for the exact measurement, i am just curious how close i managed to guess.


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## cet (Oct 2, 2004)

I don't know the size of a parking space but my dually usually touches the lines on both sides so I would say 9' wide. 5 spaces in front of the store, 54' maybe that much to the right so 54' more and less to the left so say 40'. Close enough to 150 wide and it is bigger North to South, maybe 180. Take out a bit for the store and the SW corner but add back for the entrances. If it makes it to 30k that would be max for sure.


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## JohnnyRoyale (Jun 18, 2006)

It can be measured on Google Earth.


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## Pristine PM ltd (Oct 15, 2005)

hey Buckwheat, I will always dig at an Albertan when giving the chance. I was just amazed at the timing you were saying, that's all. 

If you had said you were using skids, I would have understood, but in the GTA you cannot make any money taking that long on smaller places. I have places that pay 2-4k a month that take under an hour.

Take care,

Jon


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## Bajak (Nov 12, 2008)

JohnnyRoyale;836619 said:


> It can be measured on Google Earth.


This is by far more accurate.







I used one all the time until it got stolen:realmad:


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## buckwheat_la (Oct 11, 2009)

cool Pristine, i can appreciate that, around here, you never see trucks doing snow removal, all skid steer or loaders, last year a guy was doing some with a truck, but half way through the season, he lost quite a few, mostly due to his lots not being as clean as some of the skid steer done lots. could have been inexperience, to be honest, i haven't really been able to compare quality of work, has always seemed to me a truck with a blade would be a good idea, might as well put those 325hp under my hood to work, but when i suggested it to clients they scoffed at the idea. so a skid steer i shall go (bought a loader this year, we should see how much i can break with that)


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## buckwheat_la (Oct 11, 2009)

so i took the advice and used google earth, i figure we are at 25000, give or take 1000, not that anyone cares, lol


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

I did a quick measure on google and get 28,370 sq..ft.

Our market price would be around 2600.00, Cet your right on with the time & salt, 500# max, dont forget its on a corner of two roadsways that get salted, all these cars that come in drag salt and brine into the parking the busier the better. Its also gets direct sun all day, huge difference in salt amounts. JMO


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## Freedom Dave (Sep 6, 2009)

That is a crazy crazy price, good luck to him who got it, just make sure you go in there often for gas after he plows and see his s___ job, I plow the esso at don mills and steeles with a tim hortons but no drive thru and I get $450 plus salt and been doing it for years, she had to get quotes to show her boss and some idiots bid lower but majority bid higher. 
They don't understand you will need return visits and there is alot of traffic to make it harder to plow at some times
I guarentee you go in there a couple of times over the winter you will see a bad job and the manager might even ask you to touch it up if you have time.


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## turbo38sfi (Nov 24, 2006)

30 minute plow...if you have a 11 ft blade with an 8ft wing.


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## cet (Oct 2, 2004)

turbo38sfi;858309 said:


> 30 minute plow...if you have a 11 ft blade with an 8ft wing.


I guess you have seen this place first hand have you?


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## turbo38sfi (Nov 24, 2006)

Looking at that arial shot it looks big.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

I had this happen once as well. 

But then I realized I had some broccoli in my teeth and toilet paper stuck to my shoe.  xysport


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## DellDoug (Aug 18, 2009)

I know the place well as my son lives up the road from there about 1 km. The lot would take about 30 minutes to plow. It is not as big as the pic looks. The area is urban but it is on the edge of urbanization and traffic in there at night will be almost zero. if not completely zero for hours at a time after midnight. You will plow it 30-40 times a winter in that area as it is closing in on the snow belt. It could be done for $2320 but who would want to plow that job for that when literally 2 blocks away you could pick up a nice little industrail for probably $2000 and no salt and work same amount and timeframe? I will not understand why so many guys in our industry don't charge more for different demand levels of service and zoning? 

Oh well...don't feel bad the guy isn't going to make any money working like that and when the drivethru cars can't get up to the window and the guy doesn't answer the phone the customer will pony up the extra cash. until then enjoy the coffee.


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## JohnnyRoyale (Jun 18, 2006)

DellDoug;858780 said:


> I will not understand why so many guys in our industry don't charge more for different demand levels of service and zoning?


I nominate you to be President of The Snow and Ice Management Contractors Reform Party. You can count me in as a member.


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## DellDoug (Aug 18, 2009)

JohnnyRoyale;858820 said:


> I nominate you to be President of The Snow and Ice Management Contractors Reform Party. You can count me in as a member.


LOL!!! Thanks Johnny. What a job that would be??


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