# Help Please.



## dalejrroks (Nov 19, 2016)

Hello guys. I am new here and wanted to ask for help. I have never plowed any lots for money just our fire department if it needed it as I went by. I was asked by one of our local churches if I would please submit a bit on this lot. To the best of my knowledge we get 13 to 15 events per year and 100" average per year. They are calling for 160" to 300" for this year but wouldn't bank on it myself. They set a 3" trigger. It is about 25k square feet of lot and entrances. I would be using a single truck with an 8 foot blade. If I left out anything please let me know.

Thanks.


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## JustJeff (Sep 9, 2009)

I don't know where you live, so it makes it hard to give you a bid price. Are you salting and doing walks as well? If you average 100" or more a year, that lot is going to run out of places to stack quickly. Are you giving a per push bid, or seasonal?


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## loafer4christ (Jan 16, 2010)

1 hr of plowing at most for anything under 1 ft, depends what 1 hr of time is worth in your area. 2-4 inches will probably only take 30 mins, but we usually start our pricing for commercials at our hourly rate


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## loafer4christ (Jan 16, 2010)

JustJeff said:


> I don't know where you live, so it makes it hard to give you a bid price. Are you salting and doing walks as well? If you average 100" or more a year, that lot is going to run out of places to stack quickly. Are you giving a per push bid, or seasonal?


I believe this lot is near Erie, PA


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## dalejrroks (Nov 19, 2016)

Yes I am just 20 miles outside of Erie, PA. I am doing 1 short walk to the main entrance but it is short and they are supplying the salt. To me the walk is not a factor. As for stacking snow there is room to the south and east of the lot. I do mostly residential drive ways and for that I charge by the push so not sure how to do this. I am going to meet with them but wanted to try have a push, hourly, and seasonal option for them. I am just new to this and not sure how to calculate this big of a job.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

dalejrroks said:


> Hello guys. I am new here and wanted to ask for help. I have never plowed any lots for money just our fire department if it needed it as I went by. I was asked by one of our local churches if I would please submit a bit on this lot. To the best of my knowledge we get 13 to 15 events per year and 100" average per year. They are calling for 160" to 300" for this year but wouldn't bank on it myself. They set a 3" trigger. It is about 25k square feet of lot and entrances. I would be using a single truck with an 8 foot blade. If I left out anything please let me know.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> View attachment 167725


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Can't you score that for $125.00 per trip and be okay. Make sure the department knows you can't stack or remove and will be extra. Sounds like a lot of snow in 13 events. You may go in 2- 3 times per day.


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## Randall Ave (Oct 29, 2014)

You no you need commercial insurance. What equipment do you have? I would put a set of wings on your plow, will speed things up.


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## loafer4christ (Jan 16, 2010)

This is a church, correct? We plow a few churches and they are one of our better accounts because they don't usually need immediate service. Many times we do them last, sometimes a day after the storm if the lot is unused midweek. Best thing to do is find out when the lot is used.

If you are using a 2500 or more and a pro plow you will have no trouble coming in after the storm and clearing in one push. You will make your best money doing it this way and charging per storm based on total inch accumulation. I find that the higher the totals the greater my profit.

I don't think you will have any trouble stacking snow. This lot is fairly small and has nothing on two sides except the shed. Wings or a larger plow would help, but if this is your largest account for now, don't bother with the expense. Ultimately, I think a vplow would be your best investment for your area because of the high snow totals you stated, once you start picking up more account like this.


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## dalejrroks (Nov 19, 2016)

Yes this is a church. However they have a preschool there so if there is 3" of snow they want it done. I am looking to give them a fair deal for this because they are a church and it may end with more business from those that attend the church and school. I know from what they told me so far that they have had problems with in the past with reliable service as well so I will be sure to have it done by 8 AM as requested. I am thinking around the $100 to $125 per push range as Fred had suggested but don't want to get screwed if they want a seasonal package.

I am looking over some of the contracts on here to see if I can find one that works but do I give them a discount for a seasonal deal? Say $125 per visit for up to 15 visits then $100 after that?

I am using a 98 Chevy 2500HD with a 8' Blizzard plow.


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## loafer4christ (Jan 16, 2010)

Any salting? You also mentioned shoveling, what does that include?


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

No discount for seasonal. They pay more for a seasonal because you have to cover yourself. They know how much it will cost for the year which is the advantage to them. But if you get 300" instead of 100" you could get hosed. I think the $100 push price is fair. Where I'm at that would be a $85 per push. Just for plowing. Shoveling would be an addition. If it's a 3 inch trigger then take your 25 year average from the NWS and divide by three. If it is 100" for the average then that is 34 pushes. Add in 20% which is another 6 pushes and you are at 40 pushes for the year. You then want to add in language to protect yourself from super crazy fluctuations. So if there really is data recorded that you can vary between 100" and 300" in a year then you may cap it at something like 120" and then convert to per push. If you really have that much variance though I would just offer a per push price and stay away from seasonal. Explain that in order to give a season price that would cover you in such an event it would be unfair to them for what they would have to pay.


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## dalejrroks (Nov 19, 2016)

I found out that they got that lot plowed last year for $35 dollars a push with up to 3 visits M thru F and 2 times on Sunday. That just doesn't make sense. It would cost you money at that wouldn't it?


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## Sawboy (Dec 18, 2005)

And at $35 they got EXACTLY what they paid for......"problems in the past with reliable service". Remember that line when they say "but the other guy only....."

Charge them full rate. No discounts. As soon as the word hits you give a discount, EVERYONE will want one. Charge a fair price, do a great job.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

Bingo. My minimum charge is $85 to drop my blade on commercial. No matter how small. That doesn't mean that's what you need to do. I just can't imagine doing that lot for that little.


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## JustJeff (Sep 9, 2009)

And if you give them a seasonal bid don't forget to put a cap on it. Our company uses the numbers 18 pushes, and 30 saltings for seasonal accounts (our area averages about 36" or so) and it's capped at 40". Anything over that goes back to a per push price. With as large of a variance as you've got for annual snowfall you'll have to put a cap on how many inches you'll push before you go back to a per push price. You've got to CYA. And there's no way in hell I'd do 35.00 per push on that site. Below is my smallest site. It's 100.00 per push including salt and sidewalks. And that's what I make as a sub, so you know the company's charging more than that to the customer.


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## dalejrroks (Nov 19, 2016)

Ya I think I will have to pass on this. I just can't see it making me any money. I thank you all for the help. Just sorry it didn't result in a customer for me. If I can ask how do you guys calculate how much to charge? Lol As much info I have gotten from your help I don't want to have to make a new post every time I am asked to submit a bid.


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## JustJeff (Sep 9, 2009)

How long will it take to clear the lot, and how much money do you need to make per hour? Simple math after that.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

JustJeff said:


> How long will it take to clear the lot, and how much money do you need to make per hour? Simple math after that.


What you doing up Jeff? Plowing this morning? My truck is warming up now.


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## JustJeff (Sep 9, 2009)

FredG said:


> What you doing up Jeff? Plowing this morning? My truck is warming up now.


No. No snow here yet. I'm just an insomniac. Have been for about ten years. Be safe out there tonight.


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## dalejrroks (Nov 19, 2016)

Thanks Jeff. The scary thing about that is I saw another thread saying the price per hour around Erie, PA has been driven down to $35 and hour. I live just 20 miles from there so I surely hope that isn't the case.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

JustJeff said:


> No. No snow here yet. I'm just an insomniac. Have been for about ten years. Be safe out there tonight.


You know it, One of my guys told me a crack head jumped out in front of him trying to sell a laptop yesterday. Don't let the doctor give you any sleeping pills. I had to get off them I was falling a sleep at the wheel during the morning. I'll live with the insomnia.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

dalejrroks said:


> Thanks Jeff. The scary thing about that is I saw another thread saying the price per hour around Erie, PA has been driven down to $35 and hour. I live just 20 miles from there so I surely hope that isn't the case.


There has been threads how someone was hurting the market in Erie, You will soon figure out you can't do it if you went for it. $90.00 for me per hr. MIN. You a insomniac to or plowing? Goodthing I'm the boss I think I'm going to be late tonight. LOL


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## JustJeff (Sep 9, 2009)

dalejrroks said:


> Thanks Jeff. The scary thing about that is I saw another thread saying the price per hour around Erie, PA has been driven down to $35 and hour. I live just 20 miles from there so I surely hope that isn't the case.


That's hard to believe. But if it's true. You actually make more money with your truck parked and you in bed, working a 9-5. You can't afford fuel, pay insurance, and afford truck maintenance for 35.00 per hour. Much less make any kind of profit.


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## JustJeff (Sep 9, 2009)

FredG said:


> You know it, One of my guys told me a crack head jumped out in front of him trying to sell a laptop yesterday. Don't let the doctor give you any sleeping pills. I had to get off them I was falling a sleep at the wheel during the morning. I'll live with the insomnia.


Agreed. I'm not much for meds. I've got a never ending script for Vicodin and a few others. But I won't take them. Hope you make some money tonight. I wish I were out there right there now, if I'm going to be awake I may as well be making money.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

JustJeff said:


> Agreed. I'm not much for meds. I've got a never ending script for Vicodin and a few others. But I won't take them. Hope you make some money tonight. I wish I were out there right there now, if I'm going to be awake I may as well be making money.


Thumbs UpThumbs UpThumbs Uppayup:waving:


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

To the OP. You have to figure cost to figure hourly rate. What does the truck cost for the payment, fuel, maintenance, commercial auto, registration etc. same for the plow maintenance, payment on plow, or if no payment a rate that would allow you to purchase a new one by the time the service life is done. General liability insurance with a slip and fall Ryder. Once you have all those then add in your or a drivers pay. Finally add in profit. Usually 15-20%. Then you have the hourly rate you need. Once you figure that you need to find out what the going rate is in your area. Hopefully your hourly rate is less than the going rate. If so great you charge the going rate and pocket even more extra money. If it's more the you figure a way to cut cost. In my area we have experienced a decrease in rates over the last 4 years. Going rate is down to the $75-$85 per hour range with a 1 hour minimum. That's down from $120 4 years ago. The market constantly changes and you have to keep your finger on it to stay competitive. Because we charge a 1 hr. Minimum even at the lower rate of $75 per hour, the truck makes around $150 per hour. So don't take a client that wants to under pay like that because you can find other commercials that you can charge a minimum charge on and do three of them in the same amount of time you can the church lot.


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