# how to get commercial accounts



## Xxwhiteneonxx

So im fairly new to landscaping and snow plowing. ( few years for somebody, now this is my 2nd snow season on my own). With landscaping and/or snow plowing, im curious how you guys get commercial customers? Ive tried walking in and talking to the general managers, but they have no idea who to contact or anything on the subjects. Are these properties handled through property management companies? How do you go about getting the job? 

Ive had companies like facility source contact me but after the horor stories ive read on here about them, id pass on them. 

The first year for me was really to get my feet wet in business and get used to talking to people and such along with bidding, ect... Now that ive got the hang of it, im really looking to go harder this upcoming year for snow removal and landscaping and im hoping you guys can shed some light on how to pick up some more commercial accounts.


-Cody


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## dieselss

https://www.plowsite.com/threads/how-to-get-more-business.169344/

Kinda like this one?


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## Xxwhiteneonxx

dieselss said:


> https://www.plowsite.com/threads/how-to-get-more-business.169344/
> 
> Kinda like this one?


Yes, exactly like that one.. If i would have resurrected an old thread id get flamed for it. My questions were still not answered in that thread. I HAVE gone door to door offering my services. I know you guys dont wait around for phone calls about inquiries. If so most of you would be out of business real quick. I know some of you use property management companies and other sources. All im looking for is how do you get a walmart, a k mart, ect.. Theres alot of companies out there offering these services so what would make them call me over the next guy? I do work for a big name parts store, and they had somebody already and were not looking, but since i was nice, offered my services, and was a little cheaper than the last guy, i got the job. So i guess what im trying to say, is i dont have to wait until these companies need somebody and then 10 companies are all undercutting one another to get the job... I can simply offer my services and go from there.. Im only wondering these things because i know most corporate companies are run by property management companies.


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## TPCLandscaping

so if you are 2 years in can you handle a walmart parking lot? Do you know that most of those places require huge umbrella policies? Are you able to way 60, 90 or 120 days to be paid? Ive gone 90% commercial on the plowing side. Most of my commercial work has come from word of mouth. Even the management companies I've worked for have found me because they called someone and my game was given out locally.


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## Xxwhiteneonxx

TPCLandscaping said:


> so if you are 2 years in can you handle a walmart parking lot? Do you know that most of those places require huge umbrella policies? Are you able to way 60, 90 or 120 days to be paid? Ive gone 90% commercial on the plowing side. Most of my commercial work has come from word of mouth. Even the management companies I've worked for have found me because they called someone and my game was given out locally.


I have enough resources to handle a larger store or 2. Id like to start with one larger to get my feet wet. I have a backhoe and a pushbox as well. I have a fairly large umbrella policy already and i have no issue upping my policy to make more money. as they say have to spend money to make money. Im okay with the time it takes to pay as long as they do pay.


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## John_DeereGreen

Sometimes, bigger isn't better.


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## ktfbgb

All my snow accounts come from from word of mouth referrals. 

In one sentence you say you dont want to plow for a NSP, and then say you want to find a walmart, or K-Mart. Most all big box stores like that are handeled by the NSP’s. There are exceptions, but its not the norm. So if you want big box lots, you gotta play the NSP game. 

What kind of equipment do you have? A walmart or similar size lot is going to take more resources than you think if you haven’t done a lot like that in the past. When I used to plow Walmart’s for another company our minimum equipment on site was 3 plow trucks, a skidsteer, 3 man shovel crew, and the cinder truck would hit it several times per storm. The above resources were committed from beginning of the storm till the end. We had rover trucks that would help out in the beginning of the storm so sometimes we had 4 plows on site at times if it was like 24”-30” storm.

So you are talking about needing at least 4 - 5 plow trucks to handle two lots, or larger equipment to take the place of plows.


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## John_DeereGreen

ktfbgb said:


> All my snow accounts come from from word of mouth referrals.
> 
> In one sentence you say you dont want to plow for a NSP, and then say you want to find a walmart, or K-Mart. Most all big box stores like that are handeled by the NSP's. There are exceptions, but its not the norm. So if you want big box lots, you gotta play the NSP game.
> 
> What kind of equipment do you have? A walmart or similar size lot is going to take more resources than you think if you haven't done a lot like that in the past. When I used to plow Walmart's for another company our minimum equipment on site was 3 plow trucks, a skidsteer, 3 man shovel crew, and the cinder truck would hit it several times per storm. The above resources were committed from beginning of the storm till the end. We had rover trucks that would help out in the beginning of the storm so sometimes we had 4 plows on site at times if it was like 24"-30" storm.
> 
> So you are talking about needing at least 4 - 5 plow trucks to handle two lots, or larger equipment to take the place of plows.


What is your average event size that would require that equipment list on a single Walmart?


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## Xxwhiteneonxx

ktfbgb said:


> All my snow accounts come from from word of mouth referrals.
> 
> In one sentence you say you dont want to plow for a NSP, and then say you want to find a walmart, or K-Mart. Most all big box stores like that are handeled by the NSP's. There are exceptions, but its not the norm. So if you want big box lots, you gotta play the NSP game.
> 
> What kind of equipment do you have? A walmart or similar size lot is going to take more resources than you think if you haven't done a lot like that in the past. When I used to plow Walmart's for another company our minimum equipment on site was 3 plow trucks, a skidsteer, 3 man shovel crew, and the cinder truck would hit it several times per storm. The above resources were committed from beginning of the storm till the end. We had rover trucks that would help out in the beginning of the storm so sometimes we had 4 plows on site at times if it was like 24"-30" storm.
> 
> So you are talking about needing at least 4 - 5 plow trucks to handle two lots, or larger equipment to take the place of plows.


I dont mind working for them, but my example was facility source being a bad one to work for from what ive read. If i stumble onto a good one, or if theres one thats recommended to do work for, ill gladly do so.

I have 2 trucks and a backhoe. Im not necessarily saying i want to do a walmart but id like to get some larger commercial lots ( larger than a mcdonalds and such). Im used to doing a 5 acre lot we used to have. Took 2 guys about 3 hours. we dont get high accumulation here usually 2 to 5 inches per storm.


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## ktfbgb

John_DeereGreen said:


> What is your average event size that would require that equipment list on a single Walmart?


Last year we got the following plowable storms:
5"
16"
40"
16"
14"

Year before:

12"
3"
3"
3"
6"
29"
3"
12"

The last couple years have been kinda pitiful compared to good years. And we also get pretty good amount of 1-2" storms, but no one plows around here if there is only 2".


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## JMHConstruction

You probably aren't having much luck because most commercial contracts are signed in late summer/early fall.

It's a little now.
That is unless you live in KC where apparently winter doesn't show up anymore, and in this case it doesn't matter:laugh:


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## wishfull

I agree with John_DeereGreen. I would rather lose 1 or 2 smaller accounts than one big one especially if you can only do 2 larger ones. Lose 1 and half your business is gone. It happened to me just after I first started snow removal. As far as getting yourself known to prospective clients let them know you exist by visiting them often and leaving pamphlets etc. explaining what you can do for them. Become a BBB member. Lots of people use this as a source to find contractors. Establish an on line web site and use facebook, twitter, etc. to help spread the word. Start out with local businesses first and after awhile the big nationals will start checking you out. I prefer commercial parking lots and sidewalks and do no residential at all. So go for it but it does take some time to get known in commercial circles like you are aiming for. Good luck.


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## John_DeereGreen

ktfbgb said:


> Last year we got the following plowable storms:
> 5"
> 16"
> 40"
> 16"
> 14"
> 
> Year before:
> 
> 12"
> 3"
> 3"
> 3"
> 6"
> 29"
> 3"
> 12"
> 
> The last couple years have been kinda pitiful compared to good years. And we also get pretty good amount of 1-2" storms, but no one plows around here if there is only 2".


What was the timeframe of the event? 6 hours of snowfall? 12?


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## ktfbgb

John_DeereGreen said:


> What was the timeframe of the event? 6 hours of snowfall? 12?


It varies. The 40" storm last year was a 48 hour event. The small storms of 12"-16" are usually overnight events in the 6-12 hour range.

One of the Walmart's in town is 6 acres of pavement, the other is 5 acres.


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## FredG

Xxwhiteneonxx said:


> Yes, exactly like that one.. If i would have resurrected an old thread id get flamed for it. My questions were still not answered in that thread. I HAVE gone door to door offering my services. I know you guys dont wait around for phone calls about inquiries. If so most of you would be out of business real quick. I know some of you use property management companies and other sources. All im looking for is how do you get a walmart, a k mart, ect.. Theres alot of companies out there offering these services so what would make them call me over the next guy? I do work for a big name parts store, and they had somebody already and were not looking, but since i was nice, offered my services, and was a little cheaper than the last guy, i got the job. So i guess what im trying to say, is i dont have to wait until these companies need somebody and then 10 companies are all undercutting one another to get the job... I can simply offer my services and go from there.. Im only wondering these things because i know most corporate companies are run by property management companies.


If your questions were not answered in your old post what exactly do you want to know? Be more specific. Once again if you think that 2 yrs of business should make you established is not going to cut it, Some will want more than 2 years in biz just to qualify you. You don't need a walmart to be a successful snow and ice contractor in fact for what they want to pay I would pass. Again do your leg work and get your name out there and give it some time. Go try to pick up some Apts, HOA, Get them under your belt. The bottom line is it takes time.

You say 90 or 120 days is okay as long as they pay, I have nothing now that is not 30 days net and I like it that way. I do know 90 days is slowly becoming the norm, I still want to be payed for financing a job for 90 days. You don't want to pay 30 days net and keep your money drawing interest someone has to pay.


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## John_DeereGreen

You say you don't have an issue waiting 45-60-90 days to get paid. Do you understand the costs associated with servicing box stores and larger properties?

You say you can afford to wait now...what if you lock yourself into a 3 year contract with salt prices where they currently are, and by the 3rd year, salt prices are where they were in 2014-2015? Not only are you still getting the same money as you were, on the same payment terms, you're paying double for your material. 

If you've only got 2 years on your own, I really don't think you're ready. Especially given the last 2 seasons at least on the eastern side of the country.


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## FredG

Furthermore try to build your landscape biz up the work is hand and hand and should bring you more snow and Ice. In this region the landscapers do a lot of the snow because they do the summer work.

It's tough to break into snow and ice without being a landscaper. I'm not a landscaper and the only reason I got snow work is because of the Sanitary, Storm, concrete, Blacktop etc we do in the summer. 

Personally I think you could possibly trying to go to fast. Take your time I promise you with a good performance the work will come. Just keep showing your face and selling yourself. Good Luck


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## Xxwhiteneonxx

JMHConstruction said:


> You probably aren't having much luck because most commercial contracts are signed in late summer/early fall.
> 
> It's a little now.
> That is unless you live in KC where apparently winter doesn't show up anymore, and in this case it doesn't matter:laugh:


Oh i know this. Im just in the snow mood to post being the time of the year lol. Me and my employee i have went out pounding down doors in july. We got some, but not the turnaround i had hoped for. Ive tried emailing some locations as well ( couldnt get straight answers in person).


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## Xxwhiteneonxx

wishfull said:


> I agree with John_DeereGreen. I would rather lose 1 or 2 smaller accounts than one big one especially if you can only do 2 larger ones. Lose 1 and half your business is gone. It happened to me just after I first started snow removal. As far as getting yourself known to prospective clients let them know you exist by visiting them often and leaving pamphlets etc. explaining what you can do for them. Become a BBB member. Lots of people use this as a source to find contractors. Establish an on line web site and use facebook, twitter, etc. to help spread the word. Start out with local businesses first and after awhile the big nationals will start checking you out. I prefer commercial parking lots and sidewalks and do no residential at all. So go for it but it does take some time to get known in commercial circles like you are aiming for. Good luck.


I guess this is part of my question. I realize they probably have somebody if they have a landscaper. My question is, how do i get the job vs them if they already have their foot in the door with the company? Most dont like to switch once they have somebody. Ive visited alot of corporate stores like for example pizza hut. Introduced myself and gave my business card. The guy had no idea who did their plowing, how much they were paying currently, or even who to contact if i wanted to offer my services. I tried contacting the corporate number and they never got back to me. i run into that alot.


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## BossPlow2010

Xxwhiteneonxx said:


> Oh i know this. Im just in the snow mood to post being the time of the year lol. Me and my employee i have went out pounding down doors in july. We got some, but not the turnaround i had hoped for. Ive tried emailing some locations as well ( couldnt get straight answers in person).


Boy that's annoying, having someone knock on your door and try to sell you something.

Have you tried cold calling?
Also pretty annoying and you won't sign up everyone if anyone at all, it's a hell of a lot easier than going door to door.


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## Xxwhiteneonxx

FredG said:


> If your questions were not answered in your old post what exactly do you want to know? Be more specific. Once again if you think that 2 yrs of business should make you established is not going to cut it, Some will want more than 2 years in biz just to qualify you. You don't need a walmart to be a successful snow and ice contractor in fact for what they want to pay I would pass. Again do your leg work and get your name out there and give it some time. Go try to pick up some Apts, HOA, Get them under your belt. The bottom line is it takes time.
> 
> You say 90 or 120 days is okay as long as they pay, I have nothing now that is not 30 days net and I like it that way. I do know 90 days is slowly becoming the norm, I still want to be payed for financing a job for 90 days. You don't want to pay 30 days net and keep your money drawing interest someone has to pay.


Im not stupid in knowing that i dont open doors today and bring in 1.5 million the next day lol. I understand business takes time to build, i just feel that mines building slowly. I Just want mostly insight on how to get more business. Even if its not the customers i want now, id like to just get more business to keep some cash flow going and then pick and choose as i grow. My dad ( a VERY successful business man) Once said, a ****ty job or ****ty paying job beats a blank.

I guess what im trying to get across is, maybe realty companies, plowz and mowz, property management companies, ect.. may be of help to us to grow. Now before any of you flame me for mentioning plowz and mowz, i am a service provider for them and although its not going to get me a ton of business it'll get me some. Believe it or not, in my area a lot of their numbers are higher than id bid. A job i quoted 300 on they quoted 410. I don't rely on any of these companies or services to further my business but they will help get my name out there. Example is if i go out and do work for them who does the neighbor see doing the work? Plowz and mowz? No, MY COMPANY. Its good fill in work and good advertising as many have mentioned before.


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## Xxwhiteneonxx

BossPlow2010 said:


> Boy that's annoying, having someone knock on your door and try to sell you something.
> 
> Have you tried cold calling?
> Also pretty annoying and you won't sign up everyone if anyone at all, it's a hell of a lot easier than going door to door.


Well we didnt do that on residential. Only commercial locations. Ive tried cold calling corporate and they usually are no help.


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## MSsnowplowing

It takes time to grow.

I decided to pick up a few more contracts this year.
I put in 40 new bids this year.
I got 5 out of the 40.
I would have been happy getting at least 2 out of 40.

You want a shot, go for condo's, they generally only do 1 year bids and always are looking for bids.
There is a reason why, most guys get tired of them and just walk away after a few years. 
No matter how good you are, there is always someone complaining about your work.

Hotels, gas stations, churches, doctors offices, to name a few.

Smaller or medium sized properties you can do in 1 hour and under.

Get yourself around a dozen of them and prove how good you are, then use them for references.

I just picked up this year a nice contract, they called me and it was because one of my clients who recommended me.

target, walmarts at least in my area are cheap and only want to pay a fraction of the cost.
One example, I bid on two targets, each one based on size, sidewalks, salt product, etc.. for a seasonal rate was around $65,000.00.
They were only willing to pay $25,000.00, I walked away.

I would rather do 10 smaller properties than 1 large sized one because the profit margin ends up being better.
Unless you get that one large sized property that pays very well. 
If target paid the price I wanted, I would have gone with it because then it would have been worth it. 

So to recap:
Go for smaller places and build up, it will take you a few years to get a good rep.

One last tip, get yourself a website, 
I did mine myself, published it, submitted it to a dozen or more search engines and I can't tell you how many times mine has paid for itself over and over again every year.


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## ktfbgb

Other than word of mouth, which is your best bet, go to the lots you have identified as wanting during a snow storm. Wait till after opening time and if it’s done crappy, or not at all, try to poach it. You might get a few that way.


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## FredG

ktfbgb said:


> Other than word of mouth, which is your best bet, go to the lots you have identified as wanting during a snow storm. Wait till after opening time and if it's done crappy, or not at all, try to poach it. You might get a few that way.


I forgot to mention that, Very well can score something if client not happy.


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## TB12

ktfbgb said:


> All my snow accounts come from from word of mouth referrals.
> 
> In one sentence you say you dont want to plow for a NSP, and then say you want to find a walmart, or K-Mart. Most all big box stores like that are handeled by the NSP's. There are exceptions, but its not the norm. So if you want big box lots, you gotta play the NSP game.
> 
> What kind of equipment do you have? A walmart or similar size lot is going to take more resources than you think if you haven't done a lot like that in the past. When I used to plow Walmart's for another company our minimum equipment on site was 3 plow trucks, a skidsteer, 3 man shovel crew, and the cinder truck would hit it several times per storm. The above resources were committed from beginning of the storm till the end. We had rover trucks that would help out in the beginning of the storm so sometimes we had 4 plows on site at times if it was like 24"-30" storm.
> 
> So you are talking about needing at least 4 - 5 plow trucks to handle two lots, or larger equipment to take the place of plows.


Bumping an old thread but as a company that all my commercial accounts can be handled by 1 plow + 1 shoveling crew, how do you go about charging something of the size you just described?


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## JMHConstruction

I'm confused. You want to plow a walmart with 1 truck, and aren't sure how to price it?

Or you aren't sure how to price a large lot if you add equipment?


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## TB12

JMHConstruction said:


> I'm confused. You want to plow a walmart with 1 truck, and aren't sure how to price it?
> 
> Or you aren't sure how to price a large lot if you add equipment?


More of the 2nd one. I wouldn't even know how to begin to quote that size of a job. 
I don't have unrealistic dreams of cleaning up a Walmart with 1 plow. But I don't know have the knowledge nor experience of how I would price a job that requires 3 trucks or a front loader or snow hauled away etc.


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## ktfbgb

TB12 said:


> Bumping an old thread but as a company that all my commercial accounts can be handled by 1 plow + 1 shoveling crew, how do you go about charging something of the size you just described?


Typically accounts of that size are handled by NSP's. They will tell you how much they pay for the lot. Which is usually not enough. That's why a lot of the guys on here hate the NSP's.

A lot of the time those large accounts are handled using a seasonal price. You have to figure out what their expected level of service is, and then run the numbers like you would for a small account. Wether you have one piece of equipment or 5 on a lot, the formula for estimating cost remains the same. Just remember though, as risk goes up, so should your markup. You have to charge for risk because as complexity of the project increases, so does the amount of money it takes to make it right when something goes wrong.


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## TB12

I guess everyone’s formula is different but basic fundementals. I just don’t have the experience of such equipment. And it would be hard for me for me to estimate the time too. 
I have 0 customers with seasonal billing. Everyone pays by the storm.


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## ktfbgb

Your best bet is to network with other providers in your area. We have no idea of the going rate in your area, what your costs are, how much snow you get etc. We can not provide those numbers for you.

Work your way through a business plan on SBA.gov. That will greatly help you figure out what market research you need to do.

You have to figure out all your insurance costs, fuel, maintenance, driver wages, etc. 

As for standard production numbers, SIMA has charts that help figure acres per hour.


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