# Question for you guys with the Dmax



## Quality SR (Oct 25, 2006)

I have been reading about different chips for my 04 GMC, and have noticed that there is alot out there and many options. I have been looking into the Hypertech III. I have also heard of problems with the tranny, and other things. My questions is what are you guys using, and have you ever had any problems with the chip that you are using?


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## Mark13 (Dec 3, 2006)

Check out Dieselplace dot com. Its a site strictly for GM diesels. They will have your truck running 10's in the quarter in no time. A lot of guys over there run efi live or ppe.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Mark13;481143 said:


> Check out Dieselplace dot com. Its a site strictly for GM diesels. They will have your truck running 10's in the quarter in no time. A lot of guys over there run efi live or ppe.


I agree. I have a PPE on my D-Max and I love it. It's very straight forward and it makes my truck run very well.


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## NoFearDeere (Nov 7, 2005)

Banks for me. Not gonna put anything on it until fall though...


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## NICHOLS LANDSCA (Sep 15, 2007)

I run Edge w/attitudes on an 06' and 07' LBZ run on the mileage tune picked up a solid 1.5mpg. Had to send one back to Edge it was making the truck cut out they sent me a new one no ?'s asked.


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## Snowbrdr360 (Nov 5, 2006)

Go with EFI live!! Ill be getting mine in the spring!


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## William B. (Jul 22, 2004)

Predator Programmer from Diablosport. Pretty happy with it.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

I run an Edge box stacked with a Preadator Box.

Edge is a great box due to it's shift on the fly capability. If you have to hook up to a trailer, you don't have to plug in your programerer and de-tune your truck, just touch some buttons. (Who turns them down anyway? )

The Predator box is a geat box on it's own, it is a well tuned box for a streetable truck, the tunes are ranged from economy to nasty. 120hp tune is enough to put weak stock trans into limp mode.

I have run a PPE box on my truck, wow. It sh*t's and gets good. The only thing I don't like about the PPE is the fact that IMO it is not as streetable. PPE boxes don't really like stock transmissions on in the bigger settings. HARD shifts and transmission limp mode. (on my truck, every truck is different) And more high priced.

Hypertech is a set it and forget it programmer. Hypertech is the type of box that you can set on the biggest setting and walk away. I have beat the sh*t out of my truck towing 15,000lbs + with a Hypertech on 90hp tune and never seen my EGT's climb into anything that even makes me bat an eye.

Bullydog, I can not comment on there full tunes. I did the "try it before you buy it" promotion when I was at the DHRA Nationals this year and they only up load a 75hp tow tune into your computer for 3 days. Overall I was not impressed with that setting. I have never felt the high end of bully dog so my opionion is not valid here.

EFI Live is an great program. I have never run it, but I have a few friends (with never ending pocket books) who have had the chance to run it. It is a hell of a good programer you can change even the smallest things to change HP and Torque.

Overall they are all good boxes and programmers depending on what you need them for. Each one is different and has a different feel to it. Some are great for one thing some are great for another thing.

If you are looking for smoke, I did a write up on Diesel Place about useing the most commonly known cheap stacks with Edge and Hypertech - Edge with Preadator.
Here is the link: http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1940874&postcount=10

If you want to see the smoke, here is a You-Tube video of my truck with Edge on 4 Predator on 65hp:


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## Quality SR (Oct 25, 2006)

Mark13;481143 said:


> Check out Dieselplace dot com. Its a site strictly for GM diesels. They will have your truck running 10's in the quarter in no time. A lot of guys over there run efi live or ppe.


I have check that site out. I am looking for people that have used more than one brand, and pros and cons. On that site i am only getting 1 brand that some one has used.And what it has done for there truck. The website of the chips are not going to tell you the "con's". Thats what i want to find out


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## Quality SR (Oct 25, 2006)

Philbilly2;481577 said:


> I run an Edge box stacked with a Preadator Box.
> 
> Edge is a great box due to it's shift on the fly capability. If you have to hook up to a trailer, you don't have to plug in your programerer and de-tune your truck, just touch some buttons. (Who turns them down anyway? )
> 
> ...


This is the type of info i am looking for. I am basically looking for better mpg, and more HP, torque wont hurt either. The truck is an everyday driver. Sometimes i pull a trailer, that would be during the summer on and off. I didn't realize the Hypertech is a set it and forget it. I would like to be able to use it on the fly. What else other than the programmer will i need?


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## sparky8370 (Nov 26, 2007)

I was doing a little bit of research on this myself a while back, but put it on the back burner for other toys. You said it's the cons that you want, and that is always what you remember. 
One reason I turned away from edge (almost bought one on ebay) is because of the situation someone else already mentioned. They're known for shutting your truck down, which is probably why no questions were asked in his case. I've also heard of hypertech being locked, so you can't sell it when you upgrade. I've heard it doesn't always happen, but if you sell it or switch it to another truck or something, you may have to send it back in and pay $200 to get it cleared. EFI live doesn't have any kind of tranny protection built into it. You can get it with the dsp2 or dsp5 switch. They give you 2 or 5 programs to choose from and can shift on the fly. 
Again, I was just doing research and don't have any experience with any of these. I don't remember any cons on the PPE. I can tell you the reason I put it on the back burner was that I was most interested in EFI live. I downloaded the demo software and want to play with it for a while and figure out how it actually works before I spend that kind of money.
Oh, I was also looking at banks, the cons I had found were inflated HP numbers, and the crazy larry tune messing up your computer. If I remember correctly, the banks also didn't give you any better fuel mileage. Although I doubt I would get any better mileage anyways,  because when I put a tuner on I probably won't be able to keep my foot out of it.
What ever you get, let us know those pros and cons. It will help out people like me and you who are in the process of finding one.


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## William B. (Jul 22, 2004)

I know a guy that had the Edge on his 04.5 He had problems with it 2 times. After the second time of getting it fixed he sold it. I don't remember what he got, I think it was the PPE but not positive. I don't have a way to confirm it but from everything that I have read up on the Predator says that the numbers for it are dead on and they are at the rear wheel. Thats part of the reason that I went with it.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Con's of the Edge box: Yes, they are netourous for shutting your truck down while coasting to a stop. I have had it happen to me many times before. I got a new update from edge a while back (free of charge...edge knows they have a problem) and since then I have had no problems.

Edge is a great well rounded box, it will give you the shift on the fly but also has a feature called Backdown. If you are pulling a trailer with the box hot and your engine temps or EGT's start to get into the danger zone, the box cuts the fuel back so not to burn up the truck. If the transmission ever starts to slip while you are driving, the Edge box will cut the fuel so you don't burn the tranny up either. The thing that I like and hate the most about my Edge box is it will not start adding extra fuel until the engine temp is at 160 degrees. You get 50% of your calculated addition of fuel. Then at 174 degrees, it is at 100% caculated fueling and will start to modify the timing. This is good the the engine, but somtimes you want that power now even though it is not good for the truck.

I have never seen a Hypertech vin lock before. That dosen't mean they don't, I have just never seen one. I have loaned my Hypertech out to many people to try just to take the restrictions off the motor. The box that I know vin locks in the Preadator. If you want to sell the box, you have to sell it and state that it is vin locked, or send it off and get it cleared yourself. PPE as far as I know is not a vin locker either.

As for Banks... if you can afford them, god bless. From everyone that I have talked to through out the years, they have all said it is an overpriced Edge Box.

Crazy Larry tune is a Bully Dog tune.... somthing around 230 FWHP, I think. It is a computer scrambler. I knew of 3 guys running the Crazy Larry tune on there Cummins... only 1 is still running it.

Real Numbers *Hand Calcuated*:

In fuel economy all country roads (60mph crusing)

Truck stock - 16mpg
Truck with 305 Mud-Terrains - 13mpg
Truck with Air Intake and 4-inch Exaust - 14mpg
Truck with Edge on Level 1 - 15mpg
Truck with Edge on Level 5 - 17mpg
Truck with Edge on 5, Predator on 65 - 21mpg

As long as I can stay out of the pedal, these numbers can be duplicated over and over. Every truck is different though, so your numbers may be less, they may be more.

The more HP that you have makes for the less power that you need to apply to get the truck up to speed, then once at speed, more HP makes so you only need to give the truck 1/4 throttle to maintain crusing speed, instead of 1/2 or 3/4 throttle stock.

IMO- What you need for what your looking for if you are going with any box or programer besides a Hypertech is any form of better air intake ( air intake or swiss cheese the box and slap a K&N drop in filter in). You have to get the air to the turbo or else.... meltdown.

And if you ever want to turn a box up, you will need a more flowing exuast. You can get the air to the turbo, but you have to get it away also.  I know with the Edge Box the recommend an aftermarket exuast is recommended at anything over 75 hp.

I know I may sound like an Edge Box salesman, but I'm not. I just did the same thing and you did. I asked a lot of questions before I got my Edge Box. For what you are looking for it sounds like the right thing. My truck has to be streetable, but I still want to have a little fun on Friday nights and easily changed to plow snow in the the winter and spring and fall it is nothing more that a dirty farm truck pulling around wagons.

-Phil-


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## William B. (Jul 22, 2004)

Philbilly2;482483 said:


> I have never seen a Hypertech vin lock before. That dosen't mean they don't, I have just never seen one. I have loaned my Hypertech out to many people to try just to take the restrictions off the motor. The box that I know vin locks in the Preadator. If you want to sell the box, you have to sell it and state that it is vin locked, or send it off and get it cleared yourself. PPE as far as I know is not a vin locker either.


Just a correction about the Predator. When you install it onto a truck it is VIN locked. But when you return the truck back to its stock setting it is no longer VIN locked. So if I wanted to let you use my Predator(assuming you had an LLY), I would have to uninstall it from my truck first and then let you use it and vs versa.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

William B.;482599 said:


> Just a correction about the Predator. When you install it onto a truck it is VIN locked. But when you return the truck back to its stock setting it is no longer VIN locked. So if I wanted to let you use my Predator(assuming you had an LLY), I would have to uninstall it from my truck first and then let you use it and vs versa.


Must be LLY and newer then? All LB7 Preadator boxes I have dealt with vin lock. Once you put it on one truck the first time, it is locked to that truck. Even if you return the truck to stock setting and unload all programing from the truck, you try to move it to another truck it will not move. Screen displays somthing along the lines of: "This programer is written to another VIN#."

I am to in anyway saying you are wrong, just in all of the Preadator boxes I have handled, I have never been able to move one without first sending it in and getting the VIN# erased.

-Phil-


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## sparky8370 (Nov 26, 2007)

Philbilly2;482483 said:


> I have never seen a Hypertech vin lock before. That dosen't mean they don't, I have just never seen one. I have loaned my Hypertech out to many people to try just to take the restrictions off the motor. The box that I know vin locks in the Preadator. If you want to sell the box, you have to sell it and state that it is vin locked, or send it off and get it cleared yourself. PPE as far as I know is not a vin locker either.
> 
> As for Banks... if you can afford them, god bless. From everyone that I have talked to through out the years, they have all said it is an overpriced Edge Box.
> 
> ...


The hypertech lock was a thread on dieselplace. Actually, most of the research I've done has been literally hours searching on dieselplace. You're right about the banks and bully dog, I kind of morphed them. It was the banks I heard exagerated the HP numbers, and bully dog with their crazy larry tune. I'm really wanting to get one again reading all these HP numbers. Maybe I will settle for a smaller tuner for now....


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## billet-boy (Dec 31, 2007)

William B.;481470 said:


> Predator Programmer from Diablosport. Pretty happy with it.


Im happy with my Predator Programmer from Diablosport to


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## William B. (Jul 22, 2004)

Philbilly2;482940 said:


> Must be LLY and newer then? All LB7 Preadator boxes I have dealt with vin lock. Once you put it on one truck the first time, it is locked to that truck. Even if you return the truck to stock setting and unload all programing from the truck, you try to move it to another truck it will not move. Screen displays somthing along the lines of: "This programer is written to another VIN#."
> 
> I am to in anyway saying you are wrong, just in all of the Preadator boxes I have handled, I have never been able to move one without first sending it in and getting the VIN# erased.
> 
> -Phil-


Thats weird. I had a Predator on my 01 Chevy HD with the 6.0 gas motor. Returned it to stock before I traded it in and sold it. Guy that I sold it to had no problems what so ever loading it on to his truck.


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## Philbilly2 (Aug 25, 2007)

Damn, I was o so right yet o so wrong all at the same time.

Preadator Boxes on LB7's lock to the vin. Did a little footwork this morning.

Here is the thread.

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=196744&highlight=VIN+Lock

*So it looks like we are both right Will!*

And I found in another thread for sure that PPE boxes do not vin lock.

Quality SR you gettin all this bud! 

-Phil-


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## William B. (Jul 22, 2004)

Philbilly2;483302 said:


> Damn, I was o so right yet o so wrong all at the same time.
> 
> Preadator Boxes on LB7's lock to the vin. Did a little footwork this morning.
> 
> ...


Well I'll be damned. I didn't know that.

Either way Quality SR you can't go wrong with either the PPE or Diablosport for the hand held. If your really wanting to go in depth go with the EFILive.


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## Ctll (Jan 2, 2008)

Well I just throw this in for more info. I have 05 Gmc with the full Banks Big Hoss Kit with PDA, truck had 8500 miles on it when I put It on and now has just over 97000 miles. First two days the PDA dialed back the engine three times and has never done it again. Banks kit has all the protecting dial backs built in and you can adjust most of them on the speed loader setting. I pull a landscape trailer or dump trailer daily some where between 9000 and 14000 lbs, and it gets 16.3 mpg on level 3. The little time it spends without a trailer or plowing is on road trips for work 420 mile round trip it get 22 mpg on the trip four times in the last year. There are more powerful programmers than this one but it will run a sport compact from light to light pulling a trailer, so thats good enough for me.


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## lieutlamson (Dec 4, 2006)

If you want to keep the trans together I would get the predator programmer. For the price, I have seen a mostly stock truck put down around 400HP at the rear wheels. With that being said 350HP at the wheels is about it for the allison stock trans. I have the PPE Hot +2 ET version which is one of the best programmers but it also cost about $1,000. With the PPE my truck dynoed over 500hp and about 950ft lbs. However I am now switching to EFI live because Im going to twin turbos. With EFI live I will be able to control the factory turbo, as well as many other things that need to be changed by having twins. EFI live is great but not worth if for someone who wants to add some power and mpg to their truck.


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## Quality SR (Oct 25, 2006)

Thanks for the info guys. I am going to look a little bit more in to the edge.


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## Oasis (Oct 28, 2007)

JD Dave;481202 said:


> I agree. I have a PPE on my D-Max and I love it. It's very straight forward and it makes my truck run very well.


What exactly do these chips do? Can you install them yourselves or you have to go to a mech?


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## TTA89 (Aug 3, 2006)

Changes the timing, fueling, and boost to increase the power output. Most of the programmers come with multiple tune settings that add 40hp, 65hp, 85hp, 120hp, etc. Most of them are flash programmers, you plug it under the dash and follow the onscreen direction of the device. Any Monkey that can read can do it.

I vote for Predator also, I ran one for 6k miles and it was great. I just didn't want to screw with my warranty and I'm hoping for 200K out of my engine and trans.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Oasis;485068 said:


> What exactly do these chips do? Can you install them yourselves or you have to go to a mech?


Go to http://dieselplace.com/forum/index.php and you can read alot chips. There is a port at the bottom of the dash under the steering wheel where you hook my PPE up. You then can pick different power levels. It's pretty straight forward but personally stock is the most reliable. The more power you put to your truck, the more chance you have to break something. If you can resist temptation of not using all the additional power your fuel economy will be much better. If you really want to try one it would only take a couple of minutes to hook mine up to your truck for a demo.


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