# Let's talk about sanding....



## Marleywood (Nov 19, 2016)

Some background. New to plowing, first season in new house in central New Hampshire. I've got a long dirt driveway out onto an unmaintained town road. All told, about 3/4 mile. The upper part of my driveway is VERY steep for the first 200 yds or so.

We bought the plow truck the previous owner had been using, an '02 F-250 with an 8' Fisher straight [email protected] and an old Hi-Way gas powered sander that was pretty much too big for the truck, IMHO (and also has been eating up repair $). I know having a "beater truck" can be a good thing, and It's been good to have this season, as we've gotten a fair amount of snow, but it's become something of a money pit with repair issues (likely from being overloaded for 15 years).

In any event, we've had a new 8.5' SS Fischer XV2 plow put onto my 2013 Silverado 2500HD. I am going to need to address the sanding issue. With the old truck, I had been going down off the mountain to the town highway dept. for sand (chained up) about a 3 mile round trip (less fun than it sounds, LOL). I'd like to have sand brought in to the property so I can load sand up here myself. That being the case, I'm not sure I need a full bed sander (and the cost), but am considering all options. I should also point out that most of the town road I have to plow is adjacent to a snowmobile trail, and they don't always stay on the trail, LOL. 

Interested in hearing the opinons & advice of you all. I've searched the forum and read some good discussions on the subject of sanders, but most over 5 years old (many older), and technology marches on!

Thanks


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## Marleywood (Nov 19, 2016)

Just re-read the post, apparently I can't edit it after 20 min...The old plow is not an XV2, it's just an old straight yellow plow.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

DeWalt makes pretty good sanders.


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## Marleywood (Nov 19, 2016)

Mark Oomkes said:


> DeWalt makes pretty good sanders.


That was helpful and hilarious..... (not) Then again, you live in Grand Rapids, which I've been to a number of times, so, I'll give you a pass.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Marleywood said:


> That was helpful and hilarious..... (not) Then again, you live in Grand Rapids, which I've been to a number of times, so, I'll give you a pass.


That's pretty funny too..........lol.

Are you referring to spreaders?


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## Marleywood (Nov 19, 2016)

T


Mark Oomkes said:


> That's pretty funny too..........lol.
> 
> Are you referring to spreaders?


#1 - Thank you, I thought so.

#2 - Yes. Sorry, I believe I mentioned I was a n00b! ;-)


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

No need to slam someone for their location

For what you've describe a Tail Gate Spreader (TGS) would work providing it's not gravity fed. Fisher and Western have TGS's with auger feed to the spinner and are designed to spread sand. One thing you need to understand is keep the sand or whatever material you plan to spreader dry and only load the spreader hopper when you're ready to spread. Dry material for no clumps and feeding issues due to bridging. Load when ready to spread so the material doesn't pack and create bridging.
This is what I'm talking aboot. 
http://www.fisherplows.com/products/speed-caster-525-900/

http://www.fisherplows.com/qbin/files/speed-caster-tailgate-spreader-sell-sheet.pdf


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## Marleywood (Nov 19, 2016)

BUFF said:


> No need to slam someone for their location


I believe he knew I was joking...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Marleywood said:


> I believe he knew I was joking...


Ignore him....he's a :terribletowel:


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Ignore him....he's a :terribletowel:


 Huh....... wye is et the :terribletowel: joined the thread with valuable info and didn't attempt to take another thread oof track......


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

FWIW, for some bizarre reason those from the NE refer to spreaders as "sanders" even if they're used to spread salt.

Everyone else in the country uses the proper terminology.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Spreaders are big maintenance too, lube and grease them liberally, to keep them working properly between events. The nature of the material they spread is hard on them through freeze and thaw cycles.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Mark Oomkes said:


> FWIW, for some bizarre reason those from the NE refer to spreaders as "sanders" even if they're used to spread salt.
> 
> Everyone else in the country uses the proper terminology.


When I started we (and everyone we knew) spread sand. We called them sanders. Good thing I'm not in your country...


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

BUFF said:


> Huh....... wye is et the :terribletowel: joined the thread with valuable info and didn't attempt to take another thread oof track......


I was in the process of making a point to use correct terminology.


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Mr.Markus said:


> When I started we (and everyone we knew) spread sand. We called them sanders. Good thing I'm not in your country...


Shirley is.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Mr.Markus said:


> Good thing I'm not in your country...


 The feeling is mutual....:usflag::usflag:


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> I was in the process of making a point to use correct terminology.


With all the points ewe have to make/share ewe'r either a porcupine or just a .........


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## Marleywood (Nov 19, 2016)

Hey Mark, go and drink a can of "pop" whilst the rest of the country has a soda, LOL. I'm originally from Illinois and still have family there and Wisconsin. Wife had folks up in "the mitten", so no worries! This thread is getting off track, but funny.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

BUFF said:


> No need to slam someone for their location





BUFF said:


> The feeling is mutual....:usflag::usflag:


LOL Hairy Tick


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Marleywood said:


> Hey Mark, go and drink a can of "pop" whilst the rest of the country has a soda, LOL. I'm originally from Illinois and still have family there and Wisconsin. Wife had folks up in "the mitten", so no worries! This thread is getting off track, but funny.


 We purchase "pop" and put grocery's in "sacks".


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Mr.Markus said:


> LOL


Mood swing....... a byproduct of being flooded with text from Ookmes


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## Mike_PS (Feb 28, 2005)

back on topic please "fellas"


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Hope you have better luck than I did...... Also beware of the banter vortex.... once it gets ahold of you it's tough to shake loose.......


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## JustJeff (Sep 9, 2009)

Is your plow truck your dedicated plow truck, or your daily driver as well? If it's a dedicated plow truck you may want to throw chains on the tires. And just to verify, you ARE talking about spreading sand, not salt, correct? If so, and it's straight sand, not a mix, be careful of which spreader you buy. Not all spreaders will spread straight sand. I don't know how much salt/sand a large tailgate spreader will hold, but you may want to check into some of the smaller V-box spreaders out there. They can hold anywhere from 3/4 yards on up. A 3/4 yard spreader definitely won't tax your truck that hard, and that way you know you won't have to get out and refill your spreader over and over.


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## jrs.landscaping (Nov 18, 2012)

Couple questions

How will you cover staged sand?

How will you load?

As far as as the tailgate sander I think I'd stick with what you have, use your truck to plow and keep the "beater" as the dedicated sand truck. You already own the spreader so just keep up on the maintenance and it should treat you well.


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## JustJeff (Sep 9, 2009)

jrs.landscaping said:


> Couple questions
> 
> How will you cover staged sand?
> 
> ...


Good points.


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## leolkfrm (Mar 11, 2010)

get a 3 pt for tractor, make sure it has the adjitator inside


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## Marleywood (Nov 19, 2016)

JustJeff said:


> Is your plow truck your dedicated plow truck, or your daily driver as well? If it's a dedicated plow truck you may want to throw chains on the tires. And just to verify, you ARE talking about spreading sand, not salt, correct? If so, and it's straight sand, not a mix, be careful of which spreader you buy. Not all spreaders will spread straight sand. I don't know how much salt/sand a large tailgate spreader will hold, but you may want to check into some of the smaller V-box spreaders out there. They can hold anywhere from 3/4 yards on up. A 3/4 yard spreader definitely won't tax your truck that hard, and that way you know you won't have to get out and refill your spreader over and over.


All good questions Jeff. First, the truck will be more or less dedicated as a plow truck. Of course, when I had two trucks & my Wife's SUV, there was no question about it. We work together from home, and don't usually need 2 vehicles in the winter. I'm getting chains for the Chevy, and my plan is to chain her up (the truck, not the Wife) and leave her that way in the Winter. Plowing the upper hill on my driveway w/o chains is not something I would even really want to consider. This new plow seems MUCH easier to take on & off, so maybe if we have a forecasted stretch of good and/or warm weather, I might consider taking it all off for a spell if needed.

I'm still weighing the straight sand Vs salt/sand question. I was unsure what I have been getting from our town highway dept (I thought I had noticed some salt in it) but the guys there tell me that MOST of the time, what they have is straight sand. That doesn't mean I have to do the same thing up here if I get my own supply. That being said, what do folks think about a dirt driveway and road on this topic? Sand/salt of straight sand?

I am also concerned that with a tailgate sander that I'd be "going back to the well" a lot. With the old sander, the guys @ Highway would (over) load the sander from what I think is a 2-yard bucket on the front loader (certainly bigger than a 1 yard). It would be heaped, and I could easily dump it all on the access road & driveway, so maybe the TGS isn't a good idea, I was trying to keep the cost down, but in the end....

Any recommendations on V-Box spreaders to look at?


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## Marleywood (Nov 19, 2016)

jrs.landscaping said:


> Couple questions
> 
> How will you cover staged sand?
> 
> ...


How I cover the staged sand is still something I'm grappling with. I know it should be done. Surprisingly, the town highway dept where I've been getting my sand just leaves it outside in a big pile. I guess since the load with a big front loader, they are able to break up the sand when it freezes(?).

We are planning to buy a tractor for road maintenance and work of the property, so that's my loading plan.

As for keeping the beater truck as a dedicated sander, we'd still have to put the $ into to get it back into running shape, and that's more or less been taken off the table for reasons that aren't important to this discussion. The consensus is better to put the $ into new, more up-to-date and reliable equipment that to keep putting bandaids on the old stuff.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

You don't want to salt a dirt road. It will thaw the frozen base and turn it into a mud pit. 

The municipal yard for our cinders is open as well. We use cinder sand here, same thing, different color. Yes the loaders break it up when it's frozen but then they run exhaust through the box to keep it from re freezing and bridging in the box. If you leave your sand uncovered and it's wet, it will freeze in your spreader unless you use it really fast. Even just using tarps to keep it dry will work.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

ktfbgb said:


> You don't want to salt a dirt road. It will thaw the frozen base and turn it into a mud pit.
> 
> The municipal yard for our cinders is open as well. We use cinder sand here, same thing, different color. Yes the loaders break it up when it's frozen but then they run exhaust through the box to keep it from re freezing and bridging in the box. If you leave your sand uncovered and it's wet, it will freeze in your spreader unless you use it really fast. Even just using tarps to keep it dry will work.


 But tarps won't prevent freezing if the sand is moist/wet.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

BUFF said:


> But tarps won't prevent freezing if the sand is moist/wet.


Good point. I was not thinking about the part where he is buying sand that is already wet. I was talking about tarping the dry sand to try and keep it dry. Tarping wet sand would probably make it worse with no chance of drying out.


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## Marleywood (Nov 19, 2016)

Yes, keeping the sand from getting wet & freezing is a big consideration. I'm open to any any all suggestions. I guess there's no way to control what state the sand is in when it gets delivered to me in the first place....

I'm not opposed to some work of tarping the pile, and removing it in good weather to dry as need be, it sounds like a bit of a PITA, but so is driving off the mountain every time I need to load the spreader.


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## leolkfrm (Mar 11, 2010)

a bit confused....you mentioned cinder sand, is it a mix? or is it cinders? i have found coal cinders not as bad as sand for freezing up,


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

ktfbgb said:


> You don't want to salt a dirt road. It will thaw the frozen base and turn it into a mud pit.
> 
> The municipal yard for our cinders is open as well. We use cinder sand here, same thing, different color. Yes the loaders break it up when it's frozen but then they run exhaust through the box to keep it from re freezing and bridging in the box. If you leave your sand uncovered and it's wet, it will freeze in your spreader unless you use it really fast. Even just using tarps to keep it dry will work.


Yes and when you muck it up with salt it will need repair. You will have holes and muck all over. You make a big mess when you put the plow back on it. I'm not sure I would want the sand. If the Op was to use altz (stone dust) like you use to set pavers. Come spring it will mix in well and tie the stone in better that's there. When I do a stone driveway I always put 1/1/2 inch of altz on top anyways.

Cost more than sand but will improve the drive. It also gives it a asphalt look. You would have to clean it off the asphalt part come spring and spread in drive. No big thing. Spreader will spread the altz well. I'm meaning in the op's drive not the road coming in.


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## Marleywood (Nov 19, 2016)

FredG said:


> I'm not sure I would want the sand. If the Op was to use altz (stone dust) like you use to set pavers. Come spring it will mix in well and tie the stone in better that's there. When I do a stone driveway I always put 1/1/2 inch of altz on top anyways.
> 
> Cost more than sand but will improve the drive. It also gives it a asphalt look. You would have to clean it off the asphalt part come spring and spread in drive. No big thing. Spreader will spread the altz well. I'm meaning in the op's drive not the road coming in.


The road coming in needs traction every bit as much as the driveway, which are exactly the same in terms of composition. The asphalt is only up top in front of the garage and down about the first 20 yds of the hill, where is switches to dirt (not gravel). All told, I have nearly 3/4 of of mile to maintain.


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Marleywood said:


> The road coming in needs traction every bit as much as the driveway, which are exactly the same in terms of composition. The asphalt is only up top in front of the garage and down about the first 20 yds of the hill, where is switches to dirt (not gravel). All told, I have nearly 3/4 of of mile to maintain.


My bad, I got ya, Sand may be the answer. Good Luck


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## jrs.landscaping (Nov 18, 2012)

If there is a Pike near you get a price for washed stone dust, fines are removed in the washing process leaving only grit material.

As far as covering I'd suggest pouring a 10'x20' cement slab, using bent 3/8" rebar for hurricane ties. Dump your material on the slab and cover with a cheap car port using the rebar to secure it to the slab.

The slab prevents ground moisture from seeping into your pile, tarps are a pain, especially if you get 2' of snow and then have to remove the tarp to load. I'd also suggest two or three ton of bulk salt. Mix into the material at around 20-1 ratio to also help with freezing/clumping. Use whatever you have left for salt on your paved section of driveway.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

leolkfrm said:


> a bit confused....you mentioned cinder sand, is it a mix? or is it cinders? i have found coal cinders not as bad as sand for freezing up,


 We have several cinder pit mines in town and the surrounding area. You can order anywhere from cinder sand, to 1/4 inch, all the way up to 4-5" clinkers. The cinder sand is not a mix. It has the same size particles as regular sand and smaller. The biggest thing you would get in a load of cinder sand is 1/8 inch diameter occasionally.


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## Marleywood (Nov 19, 2016)

jrs.landscaping said:


> If there is a Pike near you get a price for washed stone dust, fines are removed in the washing process leaving only grit material.


Actually there is one about 20 miles away...Is that going to be substantially more expensive that plain sand?



jrs.landscaping said:


> As far as covering I'd suggest pouring a 10'x20' cement slab, using bent 3/8" rebar for hurricane ties. Dump your material on the slab and cover with a cheap car port using the rebar to secure it to the slab.


I'd considered the carport idea, but was uncertain how that would work when the dump truck came to deliver & resupply...Is that the reason for the "hurricane ties"? To be able to move it out of the way?



jrs.landscaping said:


> I'd also suggest two or three ton of bulk salt. Mix into the material at around 20-1 ratio to also help with freezing/clumping. Use whatever you have left for salt on your paved section of driveway.


How would I mix it? And, others have said salt on a dirt road is a bad idea....(?)


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

You don't want Mason sand, You want the cheap stuff with the small stone in it. I got it at a landscape place because I only needed two yards. It was like $6.00 per yard. At the gravel pit it would be cheaper.


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## leolkfrm (Mar 11, 2010)

ktfbgb said:


> We have several cinder pit mines in town and the surrounding area. You can order anywhere from cinder sand, to 1/4 inch, all the way up to 4-5" clinkers. The cinder sand is not a mix. It has the same size particles as regular sand and smaller. The biggest thing you would get in a load of cinder sand is 1/8 inch diameter occasionally.


ok, was thinking coal cinders/ ashes from coal, gritty works like barn calcite


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## leolkfrm (Mar 11, 2010)

can you get a deal on road millings? makes for a nice surface and plowable


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## jrs.landscaping (Nov 18, 2012)

Marleywood said:


> Actually there is one about 20 miles away...Is that going to be substantially more expensive that plain sand?
> 
> I'd considered the carport idea, but was uncertain how that would work when the dump truck came to deliver & resupply...Is that the reason for the "hurricane ties"? To be able to move it out of the way?
> 
> How would I mix it? And, others have said salt on a dirt road is a bad idea....(?)


Yes the ties allow you fasten the carport to the slab, they aren't necessary I just prefer to know that a strong gust won't carry it away.

Stone dust is a byproduct from crushing, they were selling it for around 5.50 a ton locally a few years ago for washed. Regular dust used to be had for around 3.50 a ton, or if there is a surplus they will give it away.

If you have a tractor to load you can use the tractor to mix in the salt. Mixing a small amount of salt to prevent clumping won't affect the frost in your driveway.

The washed dust will also be less of a mess on your drive than sand (which as we all know acts like a sponge in the Spring)


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## Marleywood (Nov 19, 2016)

jrs.landscaping said:


> Stone dust is a byproduct from crushing, they were selling it for around 5.50 a ton locally a few years ago for washed. Regular dust used to be had for around 3.50 a ton, or if there is a surplus they will give it away.


Having not yet bought sand, any idea how that compares?

QUOTE="jrs.landscaping, post: 2200701, member: 66152"]
If you have a tractor to load you can use the tractor to mix in the salt. Mixing a small amount of salt to prevent clumping won't affect the frost in your driveway.[/QUOTE] Will have a tractor soon.



jrs.landscaping said:


> The washed dust will also be less of a mess on your drive than sand (which as we all know acts like a sponge in the Spring)


 That sounds good!. We've had a late Feb thaw up here (temps in the high 50's for several days) after quite a bit of snow this winter. Mud season came early! but I suspect we're not over with winter either.


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## jrs.landscaping (Nov 18, 2012)

Honestly no idea, as was said earlier you don't want to spend the extra for masonry sand. The problem around me is that if you don't spend the extra for washed sand (I get some from a local cement company) most of the pits have putty sand. Which is essentially clay wrapped in sand.

I'd call around, go down and see some samples of product. All you really need is something with grit which ideally won't act like a sponge. Ball some materials up and see which ones stick together, the less clumping the material has now obviously the better it will run through a spreader when it's -30


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

leolkfrm said:


> can you get a deal on road millings? makes for a nice surface and plowable


There tuff to get anymore, I remember you could get all you wanted, The contractors milling were just glad to have a dump site. Now the municipality's stock pile and sell it on auctionsinternational. It is also state approved for some applications. Sure does make a nice road - driveway. I used it down my lay down yard. Been there about 7-8 years. Holding up nicely. Will not grow grass like stone over the years.


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

FredG said:


> There tuff to get anymore, I remember you could get all you wanted, The contractors milling were just glad to have a dump site. Now the municipality's stock pile and sell it on auctionsinternational. It is also state approved for some applications. Sure does make a nice road - driveway. I used it down my lay down yard. Been there about 7-8 years. Holding up nicely. Will not grow grass like stone over the years.


Same out here. I live on a private dirt road. We have an association to maintain it. Two years ago they were doing a bunch of repaving just a couple miles from us. The head of the road association knew the contractor well and tried to buy the millings from them. He couldn't pull it off, the county wanted all of it.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

For a totally different approach get a Snow Cat
https://denver.craigslist.org/snw/5954953141.html
https://denver.craigslist.org/snw/6025130717.html


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

BUFF said:


> For a totally different approach get a Snow Cat
> https://denver.craigslist.org/snw/5954953141.html
> https://denver.craigslist.org/snw/6025130717.html


Wrong thread there Buzz............


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Wrong thread there Buzz............


Not reely. Put a spreader on the back of a cat


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

BUFF said:


> Not reely. Put a spreader on the back of a cat


Nice try...........


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Mark Oomkes said:


> Nice try...........


or not and use the cat, as I said a different approach


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## Mark Oomkes (Dec 10, 2000)

Keep trying......


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

Pass:waving:


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## Marleywood (Nov 19, 2016)

Thanks for the additional Hijack(s). We have snow machines in case we get stuck, plus a SB trail that leads down mountain to a gas station/country store.


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## 1olddogtwo (Aug 6, 2007)

BUFF said:


> For a totally different approach get a Snow Cat
> https://denver.craigslist.org/snw/5954953141.html
> https://denver.craigslist.org/snw/6025130717.html


You running low on Geritol again?

For the record I prefer orbital.


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## Freshwater (Feb 28, 2014)

ktfbgb said:


> Same out here. I live on a private dirt road. We have an association to maintain it. Two years ago they were doing a bunch of repaving just a couple miles from us. The head of the road association knew the contractor well and tried to buy the millings from them. He couldn't pull it off, the county wanted all of it.


Around here they give it away. There's craigslist ad every year. If you take enough they put a dozer on site for a day for free.


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## BUFF (Dec 24, 2009)

1olddogtwo said:


> You running low on Geritol again?
> 
> For the record I prefer orbital.


Wind was oot of the south and the haze over Boulder was coming through most of the day.....


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## ktfbgb (Jan 31, 2016)

Freshwater said:


> Around here they give it away. There's craigslist ad every year. If you take enough they put a dozer on site for a day for free.


Man that's pretty sweet. Wish that was the case here. I would have a lot less mud!


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## FredG (Oct 15, 2012)

Freshwater said:


> Around here they give it away. There's craigslist ad every year. If you take enough they put a dozer on site for a day for free.


In hind sight if I knew millings would be this desirable I would of took all I could get even it I had to buy-lease somewhere to store. Theirs a gravel pit here that buys it from the state while milling. They sell it for as much as C&R #2. Not to mention how much material money on my jobs I would of saved.

Milling are nice stuff, It compacts tightly and plows don't push it all up. If you got room I would take a bunch of it. A association maintained road or even private will drool for this stuff. Only takes a Dover and a roller to overlay. There was a time here if you knew somebody you could just pull under the mill with your own truck and get as much as you can haul. For what it is worth, These days are long gone even with a connection.


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## leolkfrm (Mar 11, 2010)

asphalt plants are now required to reuse a percentage of the millings in new


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