# Parking Decks



## ImpressPlowing (Oct 9, 2012)

Just landed a contract for a 600,000 SF parking deck
whats best liquid calcium chloride or pellets?
any input is much appericated


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## Dogplow Dodge (Jan 23, 2012)

ImpressPlowing;1498541 said:


> Just landed a contract for a 600,000 SF parking deck
> whats best liquid calcium chloride or pellets?
> any input is much appericated


Do a search on this topic, as it was just discussed. if you don't use the correct product, you can cause major failure of the structure...... in time.


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## ImpressPlowing (Oct 9, 2012)

yes, we took the contract from a company who used rock salt for 10 years causing major damage to structure and the decks have been rebuilt


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## JT SNOW (Apr 20, 2009)

Not to sound like a Richard here....But, how did you "Land" the contract when you don't even know what product you are using on this site????...How did you even price out the job....


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## dfd9 (Aug 18, 2010)

This sounds really familiar.

OP, you do realize that pellets don't melt snow\ice?

Do you know that calcium chloride is more harmful\damaging to concrete than sodium chloride? 

Not to mention, that JT guy has a really good point.


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## ImpressPlowing (Oct 9, 2012)

nice to see everyone is friendly here, i "landed" the contract because they signed at a price that i can afford any ice control product we would like, we service 6 accounts within a 3 block radius so adding 600,000 SQF is a walk in the park. the landlord has previously done the snow removal and ice control themselves and require calium chloride, what i was asking was which do people think would be more efficent


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## JT SNOW (Apr 20, 2009)

Try CMA........Thumbs Up


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## ImpressPlowing (Oct 9, 2012)

Thanks, do you know what the ratio of rock salt yard to gallons of CMA is?


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## JT SNOW (Apr 20, 2009)

ImpressPlowing;1498621 said:


> Thanks, do you know what the ratio of rock salt yard to gallons of CMA is?


No.........:salute:

Google CMA and parking decks and do some research.......:salute:


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

Here you go. Join SIMA and register for webnair on parking ramps. Use my name and get 50 bucks off your membership.

https://m360.sima.org/event.aspx?eventID=47168&instance=0


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## dfd9 (Aug 18, 2010)

ImpressPlowing;1498581 said:


> nice to see everyone is friendly here, i "landed" the contract because they signed at a price that i can afford any ice control product we would like, we service 6 accounts within a 3 block radius so adding 600,000 SQF is a walk in the park. the landlord has previously done the snow removal and ice control themselves and require calium chloride, what i was asking was which do people think would be more efficent


It's a valid question, and not meant to be unfriendly.

And it's been proven to be true, because you don't know the cost of CMA or the rate of application for CMA. Which is the only (close to it) de-icer that does not have chlorides that will not damage concrete or rebar.

Besides, in your second post, you state you took the contract from another contractor that used sodium, and now you say the landlord did it. Maybe just a slip.

The point I was making is that calcium chloride pellets become liquid and cause the melting to occur, so your question is redundant.


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## KYsnow (Sep 22, 2012)

I'm not saying this applies to you...

I"ve been reading post on here for several seasons now and it does get FUNNY and AGGRAVATING and IRRITATING to read post from someone who has "landed" an account only to find out they don't know what product to use or how long the job will take. 

These people have a truck that may run for part of the season and they know that snow is white. That's about what they have to offer their communities. Insurance, forget about it. Back-up trucks, forget about it. A back-up plan, forget about it. These type people are a liability to those that use their services and they give the local market a false sense of the general price in a community.

On a positive note they do make even a reasonable well run company look like a fortune 500 company.

So I think you received the frustration of the industry by the way your question was written. I also think the first reply you received questioning you was valid. Your question sounded like this "I just landed an account, should I use a plow truck, bobcat or snow shovel."


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## ImpressPlowing (Oct 9, 2012)

I hear that, not sure of the lingo on here, lol. First season using this site. We are deffinatly not a fly by night company. We plow just over 3 million square feet of lots. We use rock salt but being that this new contract is requiring calcium I was asking if we should use liquid or pellet


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## Mike Nelson (May 18, 2001)

Just received prices for the Chicago area;
Approx $79 per 55 lb bag of CMA. Super Sack 2200 pounds was around $2,700 depending on how many you bought, plus shipping.

Recommended application rate varies between 10-20 pounds per sq ft. 

My experience is more like 5-10 and achieved excellent results.
Great product and recommend buying super sacks and having a dedicated spreader. Word of caution: we dedicated a Salt Dogg 1.5 yard and needed to stuff a rag in the opening between driving to and from the job. The material is smaller that rock salt and tended to leak out.

Good luck this winter!


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## Metro Lawn (Nov 20, 2003)

dfd9;1498559 said:


> This sounds really familiar.
> 
> OP, you do realize that pellets don't melt snow\ice?
> 
> ...


Where do you get this stuff? Calcium chloride is an ingredient in concrete, the study done by U of M for the Dept. of Transportation found CC almost 20 times less damaging as salt, I can go on and on. We use liquid almost exclusively and have never found any of these things to be true.


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## Mike Nelson (May 18, 2001)

Metro

Here is a link to Cryotech product page. 
http://www.cryotech.com/products/pdf/cma_fs.pdf
As you can see, calcium is about half of the spalling of sodium from their studies. That is about average from all the studies that I have seen over the years.

I still believe it all comes down to proper application technique and training.


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## dfd9 (Aug 18, 2010)

Metro Lawn;1499958 said:


> Where do you get this stuff? Calcium chloride is an ingredient in concrete, the study done by U of M for the Dept. of Transportation found CC almost 20 times less damaging as salt, I can go on and on. We use liquid almost exclusively and have never found any of these things to be true.


I read a lot.

Next time Michigan Tech performs a study of de-icing chemicals I'll let them know to check with you first.

Here's the summary for you:

http://www.misti.mtu.edu/pdf/projects/SDDOT-Sutter.pdf


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## JT SNOW (Apr 20, 2009)

dfd9;1500051 said:


> I read a lot.
> 
> Next time Michigan Tech performs a study of de-icing chemicals I'll let them know to check with you first.
> 
> ...


Interesting..............


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

I love the old "CC is an ingredient of concrete" argument. :laughing:


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## dfd9 (Aug 18, 2010)

cretebaby;1502037 said:


> I love the old "CC is an ingredient of concrete" argument. :laughing:


Sorta like air brake endorsements, eh?


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

dfd9;1502066 said:


> Sorta like air brake endorsements, eh?


No not as mulch.


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## Metro Lawn (Nov 20, 2003)

1st thing, that study did not show anything on the quantities they used. At the correct application rates, we have never found any damage to concrete we have treated. I have jobs that we have used CC on the walks for almost 20 years at much higher rates than used in lots with no damage. They can do all the studies they want, I have decades of hands on experience with it and I disagree.

Second. I have poured literally thousands of yards of concrete. During the colder months, CC is added to the concrete as it reacts with the water and creates heat which helps the concrete set before it freezes.


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## jomama45 (Dec 25, 2008)

Metro Lawn;1502122 said:


> Second. I have poured literally thousands of yards of concrete. During the colder months, CC is added to the concrete as it reacts with the water and creates heat which helps the concrete set before it freezes.


So have I, but it doesn't mean that it's recommended. If you ordered CC in concrete that required steel re-inforcement on a decent sized commercial job that required some kind of oversight/testing, you wouldn't be getting paid for your work. This isn't the 1950's anymore, and there's far better and safer alternatives to CC nowadays............


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## cretebaby (Aug 23, 2008)

Metro Lawn;1502122 said:


> I have poured literally thousands of yards of concrete.


Well then. Let me just step aside. :laughing:


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## JT SNOW (Apr 20, 2009)

cretebaby;1502649 said:


> Well then. Let me just step aside. :laughing:


With a name like Cretebaby i'm sure you have poured a couple of yards.....:laughing:


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## Metro Lawn (Nov 20, 2003)

According to the American Concrete Institute, the
rate of chemical attack of calcium chloride on
concrete is “negligible”.
1
In an article titled, “Winter Weather, Deicers Need
Not Damage Concrete,” published by the Portland
Cement Association, calcium chloride is called one of
the “safest deicers for concrete”.
2
Independent laboratory tests produced results
consistent with the above statements.
3 
The data indicates that scaling from calcium chloride was less
than that of other deicers, and comparable
to that of pure water.


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