# seasonal contract or pay per visit



## fastxcr800 (Sep 18, 2008)

What do most of you guys do for commercial accounts, a seasonal contract in which the customer pays so much each month for snow removal services or do you just charge per visit?


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## Meezer (Apr 3, 2010)

Per push.payup


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## dodgegmc1213 (Aug 21, 2011)

depends on the site. to me condos, townhomes, malls ect. best bet is seasonal. banks, small businesses (like moms and pops places) ect. per visit. it also depends on what the customer wants or what you prefer


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

We give the customer the choice, when quoting we put both numbers on there. For seasonal we take the per push price times the average number of pushes maybe bump it up a bit for insurance and let the customer decide.


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## SnowGuy73 (Apr 7, 2003)

Combo of each.


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## Derek'sDumpstersInc (Jul 13, 2014)

I ONLY do per push. That way I know I'm getting paid for all the work I do.


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

We have some customers we do a monthly fee year round that includes spring and fall clean up, lawn care and snow. Those seem to work really well.


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## John_DeereGreen (Jan 2, 2011)

It depends on property size and owner preference. Anything over 4-5 acres I prefer strongly to have seasonal, as the investment to ensure they're covered gets much larger. Many of the large accounts in my area it's seasonal or nothing. Smaller stuff, banks, small office buildings, etc I don't care either way. I bid seasonal and per push and let them decide.


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## fastxcr800 (Sep 18, 2008)

What is the best way to cover yourself for large snowfall events for example a blizzard that dumps 3ft or a winter with huge total snowfall amounts. Can/do you put a clause in place that the seasonal price includes up to ___ amount of total snow and ____ amount of snowfall in a ___ amount of time is extra?


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

fastxcr800;1844998 said:


> What is the best way to cover yourself for large snowfall events for example a blizzard that dumps 3ft or a winter with huge total snowfall amounts. Can/do you put a clause in place that the seasonal price includes up to ___ amount of total snow and ____ amount of snowfall in a ___ amount of time is extra?


You can put what ever you want in your contract as long as your up front with the customer. Don't tell them 200.00 for the season and you get a lot of snow and call them telling they now have to pay extra.


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

fastxcr800;1844998 said:


> What is the best way to cover yourself for large snowfall events for example a blizzard that dumps 3ft or a winter with huge total snowfall amounts. Can/do you put a clause in place that the seasonal price includes up to ___ amount of total snow and ____ amount of snowfall in a ___ amount of time is extra?


You can put what ever you want in your contract but getting the customer to go along with that would be tough unless you have a clause in there that benefitted them in the case of a light winter. Even then it kinda defeats the purpose of a seasonal contract. Most customers want it so they can budget their money every month.


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## fastxcr800 (Sep 18, 2008)

LapeerLandscape;1845218 said:


> You can put what ever you want in your contract but getting the customer to go along with that would be tough unless you have a clause in there that benefitted them in the case of a light winter. Even then it kinda defeats the purpose of a seasonal contract. Most customers want it so they can budget their money every month.


I understand the purpose of seasonal for both sides of the fence, but in the event that we receive 70" of snow for the year where a typical season averages 35" there's gotta be something to help cover costs.


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## TMLGC (Sep 22, 2013)

That's the gamble I guess. If you plow once all season are you going to give back a partial refund? If your doing a full year round 4 season package I know some people include something like " upto 15 plowing visits...." (Pick your # for your area) in the package and anything in addition is added into the next months bill. Those were mostly on residential though as they could be given the option to cut down on visits if they were approaching the max. 

In the event you get slammed and you hold up to your end of the bargain hopefully they will remember that next year and you can adjust your pricing up with documentation of your services from the previous season. 

My old boss had contracts and there were winters where he pissed and moaned how he probably lost money or barely broke even on some properties at the same time there were winters where he said thank god he had seasonal contracts because otherwise might not of made it through. 

That is the risk you take IMO. Build the contract for that one massive storm for your own piece of mind.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

fastxcr800;1851143 said:


> I understand the purpose of seasonal for both sides of the fence, but in the event that we receive 70" of snow for the year where a typical season averages 35" there's gotta be something to help cover costs.


Its not so much as how much snow you get,its how many times out that cost you money.


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## MSsnowplowing (Nov 1, 2012)

fastxcr800;1851143 said:


> I understand the purpose of seasonal for both sides of the fence, but in the event that we receive 70" of snow for the year where a typical season averages 35" there's gotta be something to help cover costs.


That's one of the chances you take with a seasonal.

If your really worried about it you could do this in your contracts:
_
*ADDITIONAL COSTS THAT MAY OCCUR*_

Seasonal price is averaged for our annual snowfall of 35 inches.

If we have a season with an unprecedented snowfall of more than 50 inches -(you have to give them a little incentive to sign this, so you let them know you are giving them the seasonal price with additional inches of snow added to it) you will then be charged additional for plowing services.
So much for every 1-3.9 inches of snow above 50 inches due to increased costs.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

MSsnowplowing;1851192 said:


> That's one of the chances you take with a seasonal.
> 
> You could word it as this in your contracts:
> _
> ...


How about you charge enough in the first place and then you won't have to worry if you get more snow the normal.


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## MSsnowplowing (Nov 1, 2012)

grandview;1851195 said:


> How about you charge enough in the first place and then you won't have to worry if you get more snow the normal.


Very true but if you did that you would be overpriced every time and may never get any contracts because everyone else is bidding the average snowfall.

He states they get an average of 35 inches a year.

35 divided by 2 is about 18 plows

70 divided by 2 is about 35 plows.

Say your charging 100 a plow.

$1,800 for 35 "

$3,500 for the 70"

If others are bidding around 1800 to 2000 and he is bidding 3500, who would you choose?

Seasonal regardless is taking a chance.

That's why you should go long term contracts for seasonal.

One year you might take a bit of beating and another year you make money.

Long term contracts will built in price increases Minimize the risks of losing your shirt.


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## gc3 (Dec 6, 2007)

MSsnowplowing;1851224 said:


> Very true but if you did that you would be overpriced every time and may never get any contracts because everyone else is bidding the average snowfall.
> 
> He states they get an average of 35 inches a year.
> 
> ...


So say you get them to agree to a 3 year contract and after 2 years they tell you they're going with someone else. Even though they signed it what do you do then? Or do you send them something every winter just to remind them you'll be out as the 3 year contract stated?


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

This can be argued all day, about 40% of our contracts are seasonal. On a hard winter with a lot of snow we make good money on the per push and still make a little money on the seasonal, on a light winter with not much snow we make good money on the seasonal and a little with the per push. Either way we let the customer decide. Are there really areas that have a 35 inch average that get 70 inches on an odd year, has that ever happened in your area.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

MSsnowplowing;1851224 said:


> Very true but if you did that you would be overpriced every time and may never get any contracts because everyone else is bidding the average snowfall.
> 
> He states they get an average of 35 inches a year.
> 
> ...


Maybe if this is your only account you'll plow that many times. I get over a 100 every year and lucky to plow 20-25 times.


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## Jack_Frost (Oct 11, 2014)

. I think. A full yr contract is ok if you have stuff big snuff to push the heavy. Snow falls. Keeps. Ya. From getting hurt


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## Meezer (Apr 3, 2010)

LapeerLandscape;1851264 said:


> . Are there really areas that have a 35 inch average that get 70 inches on an odd year, has that ever happened in your area.


Yes, like this past season in the Chicago. They got, if I remember correctly 82" which is, more than double their average.


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

Meezer;1851410 said:


> Yes, like this past season in the Chicago. They got, if I remember correctly 82" which is, more than double their average.


Correct, Chicago yearly snowfall history average 38" and the record high was 89" but your leaving one thing out the record low 9" for the entire year. I didn't go back and look at every year but we do get low snow fall total years also and I'm pretty sure they average out.


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## fastxcr800 (Sep 18, 2008)

when doing a seasonal contract, do you make it a multi-year hoping it will average out? If so what term, 2,3,5??


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## fastxcr800 (Sep 18, 2008)

Jack_Frost;1851378 said:


> View attachment 137982
> . I think. A full yr contract is ok if you have stuff big snuff to push the heavy. Snow falls. Keeps. Ya. From getting hurt


The problem is the big equipment is a sub contractor. If needed it costs an arm and leg. Only would be needed for a large event (multiple feet) which is uncommon or to stack piles if needed.


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## LapeerLandscape (Dec 29, 2012)

fastxcr800;1851790 said:


> when doing a seasonal contract, do you make it a multi-year hoping it will average out? If so what term, 2,3,5??


Not necessarily, I think it evens out better having some of each that way it evens out that year. But everyone is a little different. I would say 90 plus % of our customers are commercial and 90% or more have been with us for more then 3 years.


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## MSsnowplowing (Nov 1, 2012)

Jack_Frost;1851378 said:


> View attachment 137982
> . I think. A full yr contract is ok if you have stuff big snuff to push the heavy. Snow falls. Keeps. Ya. From getting hurt


Nice, Just the thing to keep you nice and warm. Thumbs Up


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## MSsnowplowing (Nov 1, 2012)

gc3;1851238 said:


> So say you get them to agree to a 3 year contract and after 2 years they tell you they're going with someone else. Even though they signed it what do you do then? Or do you send them something every winter just to remind them you'll be out as the 3 year contract stated?


That's a good point, that is why you never lowball a place just in case, bid it right.

If it happened to me I would shrug and not worry about it plenty of other places to plow and if they came back to me, my price would be double because of it.


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## gc3 (Dec 6, 2007)

MSsnowplowing;1851942 said:


> That's a good point, that is why you never lowball a place just in case, bid it right.
> 
> If it happened to me I would shrug and not worry about it plenty of other places to plow and if they came back to me, my price would be double because of it.


If you have them signed to a multi year contract how do you keep them from going with someone else? That's the point of a contract.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

If your good they will stay,if they jump ship ,not worth trying to keep them.


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## MSsnowplowing (Nov 1, 2012)

gc3;1851947 said:


> If you have them signed to a multi year contract how do you keep them from going with someone else? That's the point of a contract.


You can do the best job in the world but still get jerked around. 
It all depends on who you are dealing with.

If they break the contract, you have two options, let it go or sue them for the balance due.

I find bigger companies have no loyalty towards you they just look for the lowest price possible.

Places not run by Corp. are more loyal to you.


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## gc3 (Dec 6, 2007)

MSsnowplowing;1852067 said:


> You can do the best job in the world but still get jerked around.
> It all depends on who you are dealing with.
> 
> If they break the contract, you have two options, let it go or sue them for the balance due.
> ...


If they break the contract and you sue for the remainder, what's the odds that you'll win in court and get the money owed?


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## starspangled6.0 (Dec 3, 2013)

We've got about 30% of our contracts on a seasonal basis this year, up from roughly 20% last year. I've been offering it more and more to clients, as opposed to being strictly per-push. This is my 5th year plowing, so I figure it's time to experiment a little . Nice to have lots of cash up front, to pay for truck repairs and some new snowblowers; on the flip side, it does mean the IRS gets to extort even more money come tax time.


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## MSsnowplowing (Nov 1, 2012)

gc3;1852114 said:


> If they break the contract and you sue for the remainder, what's the odds that you'll win in court and get the money owed?


Pretty good, that's what a contract is for.

If you break it for any reason then the other person can go after you for the balance.

Long story,

had a client lose their property and it went into receivership.

No one knew it was happening until it was done.

Meanwhile I provided services for two months and sent the bill in, got no payment and went there in person and found this out. Gave the receivership the contract and the bill.

the receivership refused to pay me saying they were not responsible and go after the previous owners.

My contract clearly stated if the property changes hands then the property is still bound by the contract.

I sued, they settled out of court for the amount owed.

I was not the only one they did it too, quite a few contractors got stiffed.


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## gc3 (Dec 6, 2007)

Good thing you had that in the contract. So if the multi year client dumps you and you don't find out till later in the fall somehow, and you didn't bid to much cause you counted on that client and you didn't want to stretch yourself thin, now it's probably to late to bid properly and your screwed for picking up more business to take it's place.


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## grandview (Oct 9, 2005)

starspangled6.0;1852406 said:


> We've got about 30% of our contracts on a seasonal basis this year, up from roughly 20% last year. I've been offering it more and more to clients, as opposed to being strictly per-push. This is my 5th year plowing, so I figure it's time to experiment a little . Nice to have lots of cash up front, to pay for truck repairs and some new snowblowers; on the flip side, it does mean the IRS gets to extort even more money come tax time.


You need a better accountant.


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