# Ontario's New HST (Sales Tax)



## PrecisionSnow (Jan 26, 2010)

I attended a seminar last week regarding the new HST which will be fully implemented by July 1st, 2010. 

I learned a pile of interesting points regarding the implementation of this new tax...

One interesting point: you will be able to use HST credits the same as we currently use GST credits. To be clear, right now if you were to buy a $50,000 tractor, skid-steer, truck, etc. you would pay $4,000 in provincial taxes which you cannot recover in any way. After July 1st, you will be able to apply that amount as part of your HST credits.

I immediately drove to my Ford dealer and cancelled / postponed my new F-350 order so that it will be delivered after July 1st..... :angry: I got there just in time as the order was going out in a day or two to the factory and then I would have been screwed.

Apparently the heavy equipment dealers are really hurting because of this. Any thoughts?


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## GMC Driver (Sep 9, 2005)

I also attended a seminar on the same topic. The interesting point was made - the implementation of the HST is sure to stall alot of equipment purchases.

There were also a few other things of note: If you have seasonal clients that pay for the full season up front, they must do so before May 1, 2010. After May 1, they will have to pay HST on the portion of services provided after July 1. For work in progress at July 1, work performed after July 1 will be subject to HST. And finally, for product delivered after July 1, but paid before July 1, HST does not apply. May and June are being dubbed a "transition" period.

Also - bulk goods in inventory at June 30, but consumed for use after July 1 qualify for an RST rebate on the quantity of goods in inventory at July 1.

Interesting stuff!


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

Its been like this in Qubec for years. The tax does not effect a business, because you can recoup the taxes paid. Where it hurts is at the retail end, or when you sell your service to a residential client, the cost to them will just have gone up 8%. Even when you expain to them that you are not profiting from this tax it has just cost them more for the same service. 
I will give you a hug tip, send out your letters to your clients this May, telling them that if they pay before July 1st they will save on the HST, sweeten the pot by subtracting $10.00 for the prepay. Now they will be saving at least $35.00, great incentive to get them to sign now. This is a one time deal, make it work for you.


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Neige;1027160 said:


> Its been like this in Qubec for years. The tax does not effect a business, because you can recoup the taxes paid. Where it hurts is at the retail end, or when you sell your service to a residential client, the cost to them will just have gone up 8%. Even when you expain to them that you are not profiting from this tax it has just cost them more for the same service.
> I will give you a hug tip, send out your letters to your clients this May, telling them that if they pay before July 1st they will save on the HST, sweeten the pot by subtracting $10.00 for the prepay. Now they will be saving at least $35.00, great incentive to get them to sign now. This is a one time deal, make it work for you.


If I run a three year contract price, prepaid by May do you think it would still qualify?
Or would it be simply for this fiscal year.


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## creativedesigns (Sep 24, 2007)

Its certainly not like this in every province tho, only 5 provinces are enrolled with the HST system. Ontario & BC will be the ones joining this year. According to Wiki, 82% of BC people oppose & 74% of Ontarians oppose the new tax as well.

Even the Democrats are fighting to prevent it from going thru.

Oh well, looks like there will be lots of CASH jobs this season!  tymusic


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## PrecisionSnow (Jan 26, 2010)

creativedesigns;1029982 said:


> Oh well, looks like there will be lots of CASH jobs this season!  tymusic


And when the auditors have finished with you, goodbye business.

Are you sure you want to risk losing your "Millionaire Snow Plower" status?


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## Triple L (Nov 1, 2005)

How funny would it be if someone on here has a wife that works for Revenue Can and read that  LOL!!!


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## PrecisionSnow (Jan 26, 2010)

Triple L;1030013 said:


> How funny would it be if someone on here has a wife that works for Revenue Can and read that  LOL!!!


- or -

a husband that works for CRA 
a bitter competitor 
a snubbed employee
a frustrated client

What do think 1500 previously employed provincial tax employees are going to be doing after July 1st?

There will be a whole bunch of new auditors with watchful eyes. We saw it after the GST came out, too.


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## Grassman09 (Mar 18, 2009)

GMC Driver;1027155 said:


> the implementation of the HST is sure to stall alot of equipment purchases.


Well it sure is not hurting Battlefield / Toromont. I tried to make a deal on a used compact track machine 1st of all he quoted me 8% interest on the machine and quoted me $3500 to truck it from Montreal to Toronto.

But the Hewitt dealer is wanting to deal. Guess the local cat dealer here wanted to make a quick $3000 off the deal.


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## Grassman09 (Mar 18, 2009)

PrecisionSnow;1030015 said:


> - or -
> 
> a husband that works for CRA
> a bitter competitor
> ...


So are you a bitter competitor to Cre and work full time for the Federal gov as a tax auditor and plow snow and landscape on the side like some other federal employee's?


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## PrecisionSnow (Jan 26, 2010)

Grassman09;1030047 said:


> So are you a bitter competitor to Cre and work full time for the Federal gov as a tax auditor and plow snow and landscape on the side like some other federal employee's?


No, I don't care what Cre does, per say. I don't compete with Cre, and I certainly don't work for anybody but myself.

I was suggesting that (a) there are female snow removal operators and (b) there are more than just auditors that might not be impressed with a company taking cash to "beat the system".

Talking about cash jobs is not too much different that talking about plowing or landscaping with stolen equipment. It is illegal and drags the whole industry down. :realmad:


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## Grassman09 (Mar 18, 2009)

So you have never ever done a job for cash? We all have at one point in time and I'm sure we did not declare it. But yea I wouldnt say on a open form that I do allot of cash work. Now he could rephrase it to say he will work for beer and ford parts for his truck.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Triple L;1030013 said:


> How funny would it be if someone on here has a wife that works for Revenue Can and read that  LOL!!!


I wonder who's wife that would be. LOL


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## JohnnyRoyale (Jun 18, 2006)

PrecisionSnow;1030053 said:


> and I certainly don't work for anybody but myself.


Sounds like you have a bigger ego than Cre...anyone else see a pattern?


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## Neige (Jan 29, 2008)

Just remember guys, what you say on here never leaves. Even when the modes delete it, it can still be found in cyber space somewhere. And if you think Big Brother is not watching, and taking notes:laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## GMC Driver (Sep 9, 2005)

PrecisionSnow;1030015 said:


> What do think 1500 previously employed provincial tax employees are going to be doing after July 1st?


Play by the rules, and you won't have to fear any troubles.

BTW - those 1500 previously employed provincial tax employees made out pretty good in all of this:

http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/hst/article/778415--tax-collectors-get-45k-severance-keep-jobs


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## Triple L (Nov 1, 2005)

GMC Driver;1030147 said:


> Play by the rules, and you won't have to fear any troubles.


Straight out of my ethics and morals class in College... I actually learnt alot in that class, Looks like Cre never spent a few thousand of his millions on schooling tho :laughing:


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## JohnnyRoyale (Jun 18, 2006)

There will always be CASH paying customers, and their motives vary from being pissed off the pay alot of tax already, to running CASH type businesses themselves, that will never change. 

The CRA people are no idiots...Their latest brainstorm was the HRTC. IMO, Its motives wasnt to stimulate the economy, and get people spending, and reward them with a tax break...it was no different than Petro Points, AirMiles, or Aeroplan reward programs...they all create a paper trail. 

In the not to distant future, cold hard cash will be a thing of the past. Plastic and microchips will fill everyones pockets, and it will be accepted norm. 

A North American currency could very well be a reality in our lifetimes too.


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## creativedesigns (Sep 24, 2007)

JohnnyRoyale;1030111 said:


> Sounds like you have a bigger ego than Cre...anyone else see a pattern?


And what exactly is that supposed to mean.....


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## creativedesigns (Sep 24, 2007)

Triple L;1030150 said:


> Straight out of my ethics and morals class in College... I actually learnt alot in that class, Looks like Cre never spent a few thousand of his millions on schooling tho


Seems like Triple L is just the perfect little soul, that has never done a cash job & claims everything down to his last dollar to the CRA!

Way to go!

Im gonna pull a JD dave here, "You worry about what your suppost to be doing and dont worry about what im doing"...


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## JohnnyRoyale (Jun 18, 2006)

creativedesigns;1030171 said:


> And what exactly is that supposed to mean.....


Nothing man...Just effen with you Cre. :laughing:

I got a deal on 400 litre aluminum checkerplate fuel tanks with pump for $2000.00-you interested? :laughing:


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

creativedesigns;1030173 said:


> Seems like Triple L is just the perfect little soul, that has never done a cash job & claims everything down to his last dollar to the CRA!
> 
> Way to go!
> 
> Im gonna pull a JD dave here, "You worry about what your suppost to be doing and dont worry about what im doing"...


I'm staying out of this but Chad did tell me he didn't mind paying taxes to live in the best country in the world.


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

JohnnyRoyale;1030176 said:


> Nothing man...Just effen with you Cre. :laughing:
> 
> I got a deal on 400 litre aluminum checkerplate fuel tanks with pump for $2000.00-you interested? :laughing:


Is that cash or cheque? LOL


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## CGM Inc. (Dec 15, 2008)

creativedesigns;1029982 said:


> Oh well, looks like there will be lots of CASH jobs this season!  tymusic


X2 on that tymusic


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## creativedesigns (Sep 24, 2007)

Cedar Grounds;1030231 said:


> X2 on that tymusic


Yea, perhaps more this year! We haven't really done a high quantity of cash jobs over the past 7 years, so we do claim about 90% of whats done on paper. I don't market for cash jobs at all, but theres always clients who want the typical 7 or 8 hundred dollar small jobs..ya know! Keeps us busy on Saturdays.


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## Triple L (Nov 1, 2005)

creativedesigns;1030252 said:


> we claim about 90% of whats done on paper.





creativedesigns;1030173 said:


> Im gonna pull a JD dave here, "You worry about what your suppost to be doing and dont worry about what im doing"...


Im not gonna say nothing....................................


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## creativedesigns (Sep 24, 2007)

Triple L;1030347 said:


> Im not gonna say nothing....................................


...except I don't make $30K a year. Thats the difference between u & me!


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## Triple L (Nov 1, 2005)

Im not gonna say nothing....................


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## DeVries (Nov 27, 2007)

I wana see a get together with the three of you guy's there, heck it be a hoot, get the gloves on boys there's gona be a tussel. LOL


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## Triple L (Nov 1, 2005)

DeVries;1030382 said:


> I wana see a get together with the three of you guy's there, heck it be a hoot, get the gloves on boys there's gona be a tussel. LOL


LOL, its all good, I'd just stand there and laugh the whole time to begin with.... :laughing:


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

DeVries;1030382 said:


> I wana see a get together with the three of you guy's there, heck it be a hoot, get the gloves on boys there's gona be a tussel. LOL


Snowmobile gloves??!!...:laughing:


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## creativedesigns (Sep 24, 2007)

DeVries;1030382 said:


> I wana see a get together with the three of you guy's there, heck it be a hoot, get the gloves on boys there's gona be a tussel. LOL


LOL, Cre would be the winner in the boxing ring for sure! :waving:


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

DeVries;1030382 said:


> I wana see a get together with the three of you guy's there, heck it be a hoot, get the gloves on boys there's gona be a tussel. LOL


I've found the mouthy ones are a little more quiet in person. But I can set up a ring a sell tickets on PS. LOL


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## creativedesigns (Sep 24, 2007)

JD Dave;1030418 said:


> I've found the mouthy ones are a little more quiet in person. But I can set up a ring a sell tickets on PS. LOL


Its the ones who don't listen, that seem to know it all.


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## DeVries (Nov 27, 2007)

Sounds like a plan


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## creativedesigns (Sep 24, 2007)

DeVries;1030429 said:


> Sounds like a plan


Only a couple guys on here have Angel Wings! :waving:


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## Pristine PM ltd (Oct 15, 2005)

haha, in person everyone is too nice! That's the problem with the web, makes us all feel big and strong, unlike the little weaklings we actually are!


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Pristine PM ltd;1030441 said:


> haha, in person everyone is too nice! That's the problem with the web, makes us all feel big and strong, unlike the little weaklings we actually are!


 X2


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## Pristine PM ltd (Oct 15, 2005)

Maybe we should setup a boxing ring at JD Dave's, might help some of the guys let out their pent up rage! I call dibs on CRE! haha. (safe, because he won't come down from Ottawa)


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## Mr.Markus (Jan 7, 2010)

Pristine PM ltd;1030460 said:


> Maybe we should setup a boxing ring at JD Dave's, might help some of the guys let out their pent up rage! I call dibs on CRE! haha. (safe, because he won't come down from Ottawa)


From the sounds of it, it'll just turn into a love-in.:laughing:


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## JohnnyRoyale (Jun 18, 2006)

I think we need some snow porn to take a bit of the edge off. Come on Dave, post a vid.


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## Triple L (Nov 1, 2005)

Pristine PM ltd;1030460 said:


> Maybe we should setup a boxing ring at JD Dave's, might help some of the guys let out their pent up rage! I call dibs on CRE! haha. (safe, because he won't come down from Ottawa)


HAHAHAHAH! You wount even be able to find him when your in montreal and 10 feet away from you....


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

JohnnyRoyale;1030477 said:


> I think we need some snow porn to take a bit of the edge off. Come on Dave, post a vid.


I'm out of vids sorry. The problem with these forums is people really can't hear the sarcasm in text. It's all in fun boys and I'd kick all of your azz's in the ring. LOL


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## JohnnyRoyale (Jun 18, 2006)

JD Dave;1030527 said:


> and I'd kick all of your azz's in the ring. LOL


Wheres the Cherrios Sprayed All Over The Screen Smiley.? :laughing::laughing:


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## Grassman09 (Mar 18, 2009)

Pristine PM ltd;1030441 said:


> haha, in person everyone is too nice! That's the problem with the web, makes us all feel big and strong, unlike the little weaklings we actually are!


There is no "WE" in "YOU" :laughing:


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## musclecarboy (Aug 19, 2007)

Pristine PM ltd;1030441 said:


> haha, in person everyone is too nice! That's the problem with the web, makes us all *feel big* and strong, unlike the little weaklings we actually are!


Who are you kidding, you're still big without the internet! ha ha


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

musclecarboy;1030729 said:


> Who are you kidding, you're still big without the internet! ha ha


Once I take his knees out he won't be much trouble.


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## Pristine PM ltd (Oct 15, 2005)

haha, they are my weakness!


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## creativedesigns (Sep 24, 2007)

Pristine PM ltd;1030751 said:


> haha, they are my weakness!


Now thats such a good "Pun"!!! LOL


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## Pristine PM ltd (Oct 15, 2005)

ness and knees? I guess...


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

Pristine PM ltd;1030751 said:


> haha, they are my weakness!


I can't hurt a guy I shared fajita's with. LOL Is this another Canadian Weather Thread?


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## Pristine PM ltd (Oct 15, 2005)

can't be, cause I am posting!


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## creativedesigns (Sep 24, 2007)

JD Dave;1030798 said:


> I can't hurt a guy I shared fajita's with.


Did you share the same chair too? LOL

I bet you even paid the tab too, Eh JD! :waving:


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## JD Dave (Mar 20, 2007)

creativedesigns;1031566 said:


> Did you share the same chair too? LOL
> 
> I bet you even paid the tab too, Eh JD! :waving:


No Pristine was the man that night.


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## TremblaySNOW (Oct 7, 2009)

creativedesigns;1029982 said:


> Its certainly not like this in every province tho, only 5 provinces are enrolled with the HST system. Ontario & BC will be the ones joining this year. According to Wiki, 82% of BC people oppose & 74% of Ontarians oppose the new tax as well.
> 
> Even the Democrats are fighting to prevent it from going thru.
> 
> Oh well, looks like there will be lots of CASH jobs this season!  tymusic


My Wife, sister, mom, and aunt work for CRA:laughing:


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## Alpha Property (Jul 25, 2008)

sooo does anyone have a copy or a link to exactly how the HST is going to be broken down and what the exemptions are going to be


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## PrecisionSnow (Jan 26, 2010)

Alpha Property;1033556 said:


> sooo does anyone have a copy or a link to exactly how the HST is going to be broken down and what the exemptions are going to be


CRA and the PST people are hosting revolving seminars throughout the province. My seminar was set up by Landscape Ontario, but there are lots of them and they are free. They take about 3 hours.

You can also try calling CRA, too.


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## BlackIrish (Dec 22, 2007)

:yow!:

A while back I was told that " services delivered after July 1st ,even tho paid for in full prior to July 1, would be subject to new tax, and that I would be in violation if we did not collect and remit". Since I live in gov't central, where everyone seems to be within 6 degrees of seperation of everyone else, offering to beat the new tax in writing or verbally would certainly generate a visit by CRA sooner or later. So f..k that.
The end result of this new tax is the consumer takes it in the a s s .
Underground economy is going to flourish as a bunch of dumb hamsters screw up pricing working for cash, until they find out the hard way that the gov't has a million computers.

This article came out in todays paper.

TORONTO - In a move that will surprise many, Ontario consumers will get a taste of the province's dreaded new harmonized sales tax (HST) beginning Saturday, two full months before it is fully implemented.

The early start applies to all products and services to be consumed after the 13 per cent tax's official start on July 1. Airline tickets for fall travel, for example, will be subject to the new blended HST, as will gym memberships, theatre tickets and a range of other goods and services.

"I think this takes people by surprise," says David Docherty, a political science professor at Wilfrid Laurier University and veteran Queen's Park watcher.

Provincial revenue minister John Wilkinson on Thursday defended his decision not to publicize the early transitional start. He said the rules have been posted on a government website since October. He blamed businesses for failing to inform the public about the changes.

"The decision of businesses as to whether or not they marketed that is up to them," he told reporters. "But this information has been available broadly to the public since (October)."

Satinder Chera, director of provincial affairs at the Canadian Federation of Independent Business, blasted Wilkinson for that response.

"That's quite frankly a little rich," Chera said. "This is their tax. This is their timeline … And they're trying to take a back seat on this."

The HST, which blends the five per cent GST with the eight per cent retail sales tax, is designed to shift the tax burden from business to consumers. The change will boost competitiveness in the province, adding jobs and increasing output, according to most economists.

However, it is deeply unpopular with consumers, who will pay eight per cent more on about one in five items previously exempt from the retail sales tax, including hair cuts, gym memberships, home heating bills and gas at the pump.

Many small- and medium-sized businesses are also against the tax, according to Chera. His members worry the sudden increase in costs will cause consumers to spend less money. At the same time, he says, they are afraid it will cause the underground cash economy to flourish.

Docherty believes innate unpopularity of the new tax is behind the government's decision not to publicize the early transition. He says governments of various stripes typically advertise major changes of the kind happening now.

"They haven't done any of that public advertising that usually you find in a sales tax type of policy change," he said. "I think the government hoped it would be kind of a sleeper."

© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen

Read more: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/business/Surprise+applied+months+early/2967673/story.html#ixzz0mdPuzf1z


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## PrecisionSnow (Jan 26, 2010)

Black Irish,

The article you quoted proves the point...most consumers did not know that services rendered after July 1st would be subject to HST if they were invoiced May 1st onward. However, they would have been HST exempt if they were invoiced before today. 

I have spend 2 grueling weeks getting my renewals out and have be at the printer's shop and Canada Post every second day. It has been a crap load of work that I didn't expect to have to do this time of year! 

I know of many other companies that have done this, too. Moreover, I heard that some people were doing door-to-door sales in the past few weeks trying to get new customers by telling them about the timeline and trying to convince them to sign up now.

I'm glad this wasn't in the media's eye more as it may give me a competitive advantage. It's May 1st now, so time to chill until the calls start pouring in after Monday!


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